To think not all MLMs are bad?!

[Exhausted5487]

First off - full disclosure that I did once purchase a Neal's Yard starter set because it was amazing value and for a year my family and I enjoyed the 25% discount. I never flogged it or even considered doing so.

However aibu to think there are legit MLMs out there and it's unfair to cast them all in the same net? Obviously there are a lot of dodgy ones and pushy sellers. The main negative for me is people "investing" in them when they can't really afford to because they think they'll definitely make money. Elle Beau's blog shows how awful Younique are. However NYR, Body shop and Avon are all genuine, good quality businesses. I have a lot of friends who sell body shop...personally I have never bought anything from them but I've also never felt pressured to. I also never had any pressure to sell anything when I was briefly a "representative" for NYR.

Genuinely interested to hear why they are all the same if IABU!

@Breadandbutterpud

Usborne seems fairly decent as these things go - I haven’t heard too much negativity about them. It helps that it’s a quality product.

Absolutely, but then you're buying at full RRP and you can always get books cheaper on Amazon / other book selling sites.

I suspected IWBU but so many good points on here.
I have no idea how anyone manages to make a profit off Usborne...there are so many places that they are cheaper. Both my mum and MiL sold them in the 80/90s and I suspect they, along with Avon, were fine then. But their business models are totally different now.

@FluffyBooBoo

Is Thermomix an MLM?

I don't think so. I don't think they have the recruitment aspect. It's direct sales (which is one feature of MLM) but the salesperson doesn't have an upline or a downline.

According to someone posting on Reddit who was an agent, it is, and they do have the recruitment (but with a twist) - if you buy the machine and manage to sell 4 others you get the machine for free (not really free as you'll have put in a load of work).

I agree with a PP's DH who quite reasonably asks why if it's so good, you can't just buy one in a shop.

I think my take is: MLMs are a dreadful and exploitative when sold as a business idea. However, some MLMs are set up in such a way that they can be useful to people that just want to use the products. I usually got 40% off my purchases. Totally worth it.

The Body Shop at Home is not the same as working for the Body Shop itself. The "consultants" are not employees. It is a separate thing, with permission to use the Body Shop name. It is still dodgy as, unfortunately.

@Breadandbutterpud

Usborne seems fairly decent as these things go - I haven’t heard too much negativity about them. It helps that it’s a quality product.

Same friend used to do Usborne. The products are great and we all had young children at the time so she organised a few parties. But essentially it was the same - to make real money you had to recruit. She made a little bit which just went on books for her DC (there was some kind of reason why like she got more value by buying books rather than getting a few pounds comission).

According to someone posting on Reddit who was an agent, it is, and they do have the recruitment (but with a twist) - if you buy the machine and manage to sell 4 others you get the machine for free (not really free as you'll have put in a load of work)

Does the person that 'recruits' get a percentage of the new recruit's sales? If not, I'm not sure that would qualify as an upline for MLM purposes?

I genuinely don't think that Avon and Body shop fall into the same category as an MLM. Whenever I'm bombarded and tagged into aggressive sales, it's other companies like juiceplus. Avon simply post a book through the door, if you want something you leave your order out, they don't hassle you. However the bodyshop, I don't get. I get it delivered and usually get £10 off a £30 spend, so it's cheaper and free delivery. But the representative I know says we have to collect from her home or pay for delivery, also can't use discounts. Its more expensive to buy things from her.

They are all, without a doubt, without exception - no, not one exception, no, not even that one, no, not that one either - exploitative scams.

If there is any element whatsoever of "recruiting" other people to sell the product, it is a MLM and you will either lose money (almost everyone), make a few pounds (a very few people), or become a completely remorseless and mercenary monster in order make about as much as you'd probably get in a mid-level office job (but you will lie constantly about making more, and take photos of yourself with cars and accessories you don't own to back up that lie).

Happy to help!

@FluffyBooBoo

According to someone posting on Reddit who was an agent, it is, and they do have the recruitment (but with a twist) - if you buy the machine and manage to sell 4 others you get the machine for free (not really free as you'll have put in a load of work)

Does the person that 'recruits' get a percentage of the new recruit's sales? If not, I'm not sure that would qualify as an upline for MLM purposes?

Yes they get money for recruit's sales (not sure if it's strictly a percentage) - all this is according to Reddit posters. Apparently they are on sale in shops in Germany.

@Helloise

They are all, without a doubt, without exception - no, not one exception, no, not even that one, no, not that one either - exploitative scams.

If there is any element whatsoever of "recruiting" other people to sell the product, it is a MLM and you will either lose money (almost everyone), make a few pounds (a very few people), or become a completely remorseless and mercenary monster in order make about as much as you'd probably get in a mid-level office job (but you will lie constantly about making more, and take photos of yourself with cars and accessories you don't own to back up that lie).

Happy to help!

Great post!

Those of you saying "but I like the product" - you are still supporting an unethical business that blatantly preys on other women. The products are never that great, anyway. If there is one you think you can't live without, google "(product name) dupe" - there are lots of people who do the legwork to find cheaper identical (or better) products that you can enjoy without supporting an exploitative industry.

@Beautiful3

I genuinely don't think that Avon and Body shop fall into the same category as an MLM. Whenever I'm bombarded and tagged into aggressive sales, it's other companies like juiceplus. Avon simply post a book through the door, if you want something you leave your order out, they don't hassle you. However the bodyshop, I don't get. I get it delivered and usually get £10 off a £30 spend, so it's cheaper and free delivery. But the representative I know says we have to collect from her home or pay for delivery, also can't use discounts. Its more expensive to buy things from her.

This is sad she can’t even sell at a discount, there’s literally no reason to buy from them. Unless they liquidate their stock cheap on eBay to try to recoup some (very little) of their costs

It’s really sad. I do think there is value in a community demonstration/selling model - but one where the companies are responsible and pay their employees a fair wage.

For example - it’s often useful to be able to thumb through a book or watch someone cook using a frying pan (which you can’t do when shopping online). HOWEVER - what is stopping these companies from paying 1 person per area from holding 1 day per month? The customers could then get a code for a discount from the company official website or something (so the demonstrator does not have to bear the cost).

@Beautiful3

Depends on who your reps are. Locally to me they are both aggressively sold via pamper parties that turn out to be selling opportunities, on any form of social media and even through things like notes in kid party bags etc here

Growing up it used to be a catalogue but very different now

An MLM isn’t the same as a direct selling model.
For an MLM recruiting and getting the down line to prepay for stocks is where the money is not selling to customers.
Avon and Mary Kay used to be direct selling instead of MLM.

These days direct selling is an outdated business model…what with the internet and social media marketing

This is what Body Shop At Home is about (like all MLMs).

Swamping Facebook groups and your friends with these sort of posts and deceptive language about 'sponsorship', 'company cars' and 'earning enough to help buy a new home'.

Just one of the many I saw in my group feeds last week.

I genuinely don't think that Avon and Body shop fall into the same category as an MLM.

I’m friends with a women on fb who does body shop. She’s been doing it a while and has got steadily quieter about it but there were definitely posts from someone clearly her “upline” about how amazing her team of wonderful girlies had done earning money #mumboss
And she clearly recruited people as there’d be posts like “so proud to have xxx on my team, I know she’s going to be amazing” and then “omg my new team member has sold so much already, such an amazing job”
She still posts occasionally, mainly about a specific product that you can order for her, or about something she’s paid for with her body shop money (she re-did her toddler’s bedroom, painted it, new bed and furniture etc and credited it all to body shop letting her work and be a mum and treat her kids). It seems just like other MLMs

@TractorAndHeadphones

An MLM isn’t the same as a direct selling model. For an MLM recruiting and getting the down line to prepay for stocks is where the money is not selling to customers. Avon and Mary Kay used to be direct selling instead of MLM.

These days direct selling is an outdated business model…what with the internet and social media marketing

I think that's really key- direct selling isn't profitable anymore. It can't be, because it is infinitely cheaper, easier, and more effective just to make a website and do some online marketing. ANY company that recruits "regular people" to sell their product for a very small cut of the profit (instead of just making a website and doing some very basic online marketing) is a scam. The product is the promise of an easy income for people who are bored, desperate, or vulnerable. Those bored, desperate, or vulnerable people end up paying for that promise - some a little, some a lot. The makeup or leggings or soup mixer or candle or whatever is just incidental to that.

I buy most of my skincare and makeup through an MLM company. I was introduced to the range through someone I met in a professional capacity, she has never pressured me to make subsequent purchases, even though I have voluntarily for eight years now (directly through the product website not her) and nobody has ever tried to recruit me to start selling myself. So based on my experience, I do not understand the issue with MLMs.

I just went off and did a bit of Googling - it seems there are a lot of people saying even Avon and Body Shop are MLMs - on the basis that there are levels and incentives. I guess it's really a question of semantics - it's a bit like arguing about musical genres really.

It really isn’t semantics. Both BSAH and Avon tick every box for what is an MLM.

Whenever I'm bombarded and tagged into aggressive sales, it's other companies like juiceplus.

I’ve had to block BSAH reps on FB. It was particularly bad at the beginning of Covid when they were using their scam to “donate hand cream for nurses”.

Those of you saying "but I like the product" - you are still supporting an unethical business that blatantly preys on other women.

Exactly.

I’ve had to block BSAH reps on FB. It was particularly bad at the beginning of Covid when they were using their scam to “donate hand cream for nurses”.

I'd forgotten about that - yes, so many of those. It was really distasteful. Basically "you buy my product so I can try and hit my targets, I will send it to a hospital/care home, with a note about how generous I am to have arranged this and also use it to spawn future marketing posts about how wonderful my mlm is"

Nothing is sacred or off limits for exploitation by these people. I wonder if they just don't realise how bad they look pulling these stunts, or whether they do but are too desperate to care anymore.

I buy most of my skincare and makeup through an MLM company. I was introduced to the range through someone I met in a professional capacity, she has never pressured me to make subsequent purchases, even though I have voluntarily for eight years now (directly through the product website not her) and nobody has ever tried to recruit me to start selling myself. So based on my experience, I do not understand the issue with MLMs
You do not understand the issue with a business model based on recruiting people knowing that they will not make any money, and more importantly they will lose money?

You don't understand the issue with a business model that targets women when they are financially vulnerable and lies to hook them in?

You don't understand why it's a problem that a business model relies on recruiting people who will lose money in order for their uplines to make money?

I'd forgotten about that - yes, so many of those. It was really distasteful. Basically "you buy my product so I can try and hit my targets, I will send it to a hospital/care home, with a note about how generous I am to have arranged this and also use it to spawn future marketing posts about how wonderful my mlm is"

Yep. Also completely missed a really obvious point. The posts were all about how the Covid situation was affecting nurses, their poor hands are suffering with all the hand washing for Covid. As if regular hand washing isn’t required by nurses and HCPs in non Covid times. 😆

Avon wasn't an MLM until they bought in these team leaders and you had to sign consultants up to your team. Then it became an MLM. They should go back to the old model for ethical reasons but they won't as they make money from it.