To think not all MLMs are bad?!

[Exhausted5487]

First off - full disclosure that I did once purchase a Neal's Yard starter set because it was amazing value and for a year my family and I enjoyed the 25% discount. I never flogged it or even considered doing so.

However aibu to think there are legit MLMs out there and it's unfair to cast them all in the same net? Obviously there are a lot of dodgy ones and pushy sellers. The main negative for me is people "investing" in them when they can't really afford to because they think they'll definitely make money. Elle Beau's blog shows how awful Younique are. However NYR, Body shop and Avon are all genuine, good quality businesses. I have a lot of friends who sell body shop...personally I have never bought anything from them but I've also never felt pressured to. I also never had any pressure to sell anything when I was briefly a "representative" for NYR.

Genuinely interested to hear why they are all the same if IABU!

@lanadelboy that does sound dodgy I stopped buying it after a while because I found an ethical brand that wasn't so ridiculously priced.

I loathe MLMs but a couple of my friends have got school gate aquaintances who sell Tropic, and I've had quite a few gifts from them of Tropic stuff. Must say I love the product, if it was in the shops I'd buy it.

Avon used to be ok you were given a set area and your family and friends these days its every rep for themselves the last time I did it I was given an area and another rep threatened me and upset the customers telling them buying from me made her children go hungry

I got a proper job in the end yes I need to pay childcare but its easier

If nothing else, they ruin friendships. There’s another thread on active at the moment where a long awaited weekend away with friends has been hijacked by one of them as an opportunity to sell her Bodyshop products to a captive audience - once they are ducked in all social activity because a selling opportunity.

Avon was probably okay when it was women buying stuff they actually wanted and that wasn’t available in shops, but the world has changed and virtually everything is available online and sales techniques have become very pushy - its not just a local women making a few quid from willing customers.

Nah, they're all dodgy and exploitative. They're commercial cults, basically.

@FluffyBooBoo it was a while ago now but the way they handled it was appalling
www.theguardian.com/science/2008/may/07/1

The MLM business model should be made illegal.

It's predatory, encourages debt and pressures vulnerable 'agents' into buying stock they can't afford.

The very few who ever succeed at MLMs are the ruthless, promotion hungry sales masters who can not only embellish the truth and benefits about rather average products but also the ‘opportunity’ to be just like them.

If you are shy, lack confidence or have a financial vulnerability then the allure of the lifestyle will suck you in and spit you out faster than you can say ‘upline’.

My friend does Body Shop - all positive about how great it was on her SM. I asked her once if she was making money from it. She sighed and said 'not really, the only way to make decent money is to recruit but that takes a long time' - it told me all I needed to know really. Prior to that I would have thought Body shop was 'legit' and people made money selling the products.

Usborne seems fairly decent as these things go - I haven’t heard too much negativity about them. It helps that it’s a quality product.

MLM are generally all bad news because compared to modern efficient retail methods (online etc), face to face selling by an individual is inefficient. To actually generate enough income on the low volumes an individual can usually sell (typically in a saturated market) the mark ups have to be high so the goods are often relatively overpriced.

Even NY is - its very expensive for what it is and few of the sales consultants generate any meaningful income selling it.

If MLM really wanted sales people to earn anything they would pay them minimum wage for their time. They don't because they would lose millions that way, most MLM sellers are effectively working for free or a fraction of minimum wage.

They're all bad, but some are worse than others I think.

@DeepaBeesKit your last paragraph makes so much sense...I've never thought of it like that.

Neals Yard and the Body Shop used to be such good brands. I haven’t come across them as MLMs , it’s very disappointing to hear how they have changed.

Thee is no such thing as a good MLM, only ones that are slightly less bad than the others.

Yes it’s commission based earning but so is lots of work.

The difference between a real sales job and Avon or any other MLM is, your employer is legally obliged to ensure you make at least the minimum wage. This is why MLMs call you self employed. Nobody is making minimum wage from only selling Avon.

However as you say they are genuine products and you can make a nice bit of side money by just selling the products.

Not any more. They are just as crap as all the others now, and you will only make any money by recruiting a downline. If you look at their advertising, it is about recruitment, not about selling their product. The advertising they did at the superbowl a few years back did not promote a single product. It was the biggest spend on advertising they had ever had and it was about “opportunity”. They were switching to recruitment because people weren’t buying their products, despite there being more reps than in previous years.

In 2009 their North American President said “right now our direct selling opportunity is really the number one product we have to sell”

Avon are just as bad as all the others. We have 5 people just on our estate trying to sell Avon.

Usborne seems fairly decent as these things go - I haven’t heard too much negativity about them. It helps that it’s a quality product
The BST groups I'm in on social media suggest that there's lots of ex reps out there having huge destashes before Christmas because they've ended up buying loads more stock than they were able to sell.
It doesn't doesn't much different to the make up, wellness, shakes, wax melt type MLMs who push reps to buy lots of stock to take to various markets and selling events, when they're really only interested in milking their downlines for whatever cash they can.

When people can order books online, in book shops and in supermarkets, why does anyone need to buy at RRP from an MLM rep?

Sometimes the product is decent but the business model is exploitative and terrible.

Even NY is - its very expensive for what it is and few of the sales consultants generate any meaningful income selling it

It's not cheap, but nor is it expensive compared to some other quality skincare that is neither organic nor fair trade.

I signed up because the kit was half price, which included the cream I usually spent £30 on, and I was promised 25% off future purchases. Which was exactly what I got. I didn't sign up to make money, and I got great value from being a consultant. If you use the products I recommend waiting till they have a signing up offer, and doing it. If you don't use the products, don't go anywhere near it. I didn't sign up to make meaningful income. I did, however, make meaningful savings.

Oh, and take a hard pass on the deodorant. It's really bad.

Is Thermomix an MLM? A friend of mine sells them and several friends who've bought one love them, and they seem like a great product (if you like that sort of thing) but as my DH says "if it was that good, you would be able buy it from John Lewis".

For me, the products are irrelevant. No better no worse than other similar things on the market.

What boils my piss, is the way ‘friends’ turn into possessed versions of themselves, by all the brainwashing they have succumbed to.

They can’t seem to see how annoying they become, all this ‘Mumboss, bossbabe’ shight, it’s beyond cringe worthy. They try to pass it off as some great fun then proceed to bombard their friends with these ‘amazing products’.

They are sold the ‘dream’ but it’s a bludy nightmare for those around them!

It would be the equivalent of going to Tesco and 20 staff crowding round you and asking how they can help. Get out of my face and let me get on with my day, is how you can help!

Avon is definitely a MLM scheme. I know one of their area managers, she's quite open that the easiest prey for her (and her 'team leaders') are lone mothers on benefits. They put on a big sister facade, listening to their problems, telling them how Avon will solve it all, it won't affect their benefits (untrue). Then as soon as they're signed up they're pushed into recruiting, selling etc. All the huggy support goes out the window.

@Breadandbutterpud Usborne is most definitely an mlm, albeit under a veil of respectability because it’s children’s books.

This article is an eye-opener! www.talentedladiesclub.com/articles/how-much-money-can-you-earn-with-mlm-usborne-books-at-home/

Is Thermomix an MLM?

I don't think so. I don't think they have the recruitment aspect. It's direct sales (which is one feature of MLM) but the salesperson doesn't have an upline or a downline.

Usborne seems fairly decent as these things go - I haven’t heard too much negativity about them. It helps that it’s a quality product.

Usborne is terrible. At least with most other MLMs, you are “only” competing with other reps to sell the stuff. But Usborne books are everywhere. Supermarkets, Amazon, book shops, garden centres. All for lower prices and without having to pay postage. The do also sell some quite poor quality through the MLM too.

mlmtruth.org/2018/11/11/uncovering-usborne-my-mlm-experience/

Avon rides on the fact that it used to be a direct selling model with set patches. People remember the Avon Lady calling from when they were kids. But it has changed to match the model of other MLM companies such as younique, forever living etc.

Usborne relies on people thinking that books can't be bad, reading is good, and it is a legit product you can buy in shops (so why not do that?)

Body Shop relies on its mainstream retail reputation but again why use a rep over their own website? In fact, why do they even have an MLM arm? Is it out of the goodness of their hearts in providing reps WFH opportunities or is it because they get to ditch pension, NI, sick pay, maternity pay costs whilst persuading reps that they need to buy stock (thus making it more profitable for the parent company than their traditional retail model).

Tropic relies on the fact that Alan Sugar is involved and Susie Ma. So Tv and celebrity must be ok. Plus a lot of their ambassadors are wealthy women with wealthy friends who don't need to recruit and can just get the discount and small sales for pin money (but pity anyone without disposable income whobgsts sucked in). I suspect NY may be similar in terms of rep demographic.

The bottom line however is that something like 98% of reps in any MLM will break even at best, or lose money. But the companies will say that is ok, because "some people just want the discount" or a little spending money. However at the same time their reps will tell you that you can make money in pockets of spare time, have more time with your kids, pay for holidays/xmas/car/whatever you thing is. Despite the fact most will work hard, miss out on time with kids, lose money, and be told it was their own fault for not doing it right.