Training as a solicitor / working full time as a mum

[Motherofking]

I have just completed my Masters in Law, I have done a few vacations schemes and opens days and i am planning to apply for training contracts. I have a 1 and a half year old so no plans to look for training contracts in city law firms , Just international law firms, national and regional firms which offer a better life work balance. Can someone give me tips on how i can manage a full time job and be a full time mum . I will put my son in nursery but i want us to spend alot of time together, i dont want to spend the only hours i have at home cleaning or cooking id rather spend it with him ?

And another question, alot of training contracts give you the job two / three years in advance, For example if i get the job in 2022 my start date will be 2024 or 2025. Would it be a bad idea to get pregnant and have a baby within that gap. I really want another baby especially because once i start my career i dont want to have any more babies. I just want to keep working until i am established enough within my career without any breaks or interruptions.

Haven't read everyone's posts. From what I saw, you got some good advice.

As someone who has been working in this field for 15 years, I would advise you to think very carefully about a TC because with your grades and qualifications, unfortunately it's highly unlikely to just get a TC without any friends/family having their own law firms that could take you on.

Have a look at the ILEX route. It may be a much better way to qualify than a TC route and at the end you would be able to do everything a qualified solicitor can do (including being a partner in a law firm). I know several who took the ILEX route and there really is no difference at the end of day.

Well I’m completely confused now. I cannot see why people are assuming she’s got her course name wrong and has done thr lpc already, as a combined course. If she’d done the lpc she’d not wish it be be paid for as part of a training contract and it would be unusual to be confused as to what course you’d done.

@XelaM

The area of law I found that gives the best work/life palace is securitisation (in the housing sector). I have never done it, but had colleagues who did and I was very jealous Don't do litigation (my specialism) if you want a good work/life balance

I'm in litigation and have an excellent work / life balance. However, I also don't earn the big bucks which other solicitors do, so I took my hit on pay, rather than working every hour god sends!

@MurielSpriggs haha I'm triggered because I'm a stickler for grammar and punctuation and all 'professional' communications in my team usually fall to me.
But typing on a phone is shit. Especially as mine lags so badly, autocorrect does the wrong thing and if I stopped to correct it a 3 second post would take me 5 minutes.

I'll go away now OP :D

Have a second child when you want a second child, because ultimately that is what you will look back and think about

@Bluntness100 No you are not right . The LLM is simimlar to the Gdl as it is a conversion course. There is no need to do the GDL once you have done the LLM.

[quote Motherofking]@Bluntness100 No you are not right . The LLM is simimlar to the Gdl as it is a conversion course. There is no need to do the GDL once you have done the LLM.[/quote]
Op what exactly did you study? Was it thr llm as you’re posting?

@NoWordForFluffy I guess it depends on the type of litigation. I've been doing high value fraud litigation (usually CIS bank fraud) and the hours have been horrendous, especially when my main client was 6 hours ahead of me, but you're right- litigation is a very wide concept

@Motherofking As above, if I were you I would look at the ILEX route to qualification. Looking/waiting for a Training Contract is a thankless task that very rarely actually pays off in monetary terms

@JumperandJacket The LLM is a conversion course . You dont need a law degree to do it

Pay for a cleaner and ask them to do time consuming things like putting on washes too. Pay others do the things that eat up family time. Get your food shopping delivered so you don't waste hours on that on the weekend. Buy prepared veg to speed up cooking time etc. Simply pay out to smooth your life and free up time to spend with your son.

I think this is the course. Essentially it's a GDL + extra module which makes it an LLM. So unlike most LLMs it functions as a sort of "GDL plus". OP will still need to do the LPC I think, if her career path requires it.

@Hothammock I doubt she could do that on a Trainee's salary 😬

@Bluntness100 Yes i studied the LLM. So i just have a masters in law , that what is. Similar to how you can have a masters in any subject . But i will still need to do the LPC, SQE or Cilex. I cannot train . Hope that makes sense to everyone

[quote Motherofking]@Bluntness100 Yes i studied the LLM. So i just have a masters in law , that what is. Similar to how you can have a masters in any subject . But i will still need to do the LPC, SQE or Cilex. I cannot train . Hope that makes sense to everyone[/quote]
I meant to say i still need to train to become a solictor

@honeylulu Yes that is it. And yes i am aware of that . That is why i am looking for firms who can fund the LPC or SQE. But ideally the SQE .

@honeylulu

I'm reading this thread with interest as I'm a solicitor and had my first child early in my career (admittedly at 1 year PQE rather than before TC).

I've had a look at BPP's site and it seems there is an option to do the PGDL with a top up module which escalates it to an LLM. I'm guessing that is what you did hence your remarks about not needing a GDL.

If you do a TC you will need to fit in the LPC before you start (funding it yourself if necessary). Bigger firms in particular often recruit two years in advance but traditionally this is in year 2 of a degree so the two year "break" is for the final year of uni and then one year FT LPC; it's not really a "break" at all. At my firm candidates who can start sooner are often not given the full two years. Even if you secure a TC with full two year wait, it's still not a spare 2 years to fill (with a pregnancy and baby for example!) as you need to spend either a year FT LPC or two years PT LPC.

If you do the SQE or CILEX route you don't need the LPC, but if you start one of those routes now, there won't be a starting "break" at all either.

My recommendation would be to start paralegalling now + looking for a SQE or CILEX placement. Paralegal work will bring you (a) income, albeit modest (b) experience in the legal industry and (c) useful stuff for your applications which may possibly be at the same firm you are paralegalling for. Once you are formally employed and are building up maternity leave rights you can consider how/ when a second child might fit in with your qualification path. Otherwise you'll just keep drifting.

I'm advising, I think, steering away from the TC path for various reasons . As PPs have said TCs are now SO hard to get, even harder if you want/ need a firm who funds your LPC. I'm on the recruitment panel for my firm and honestly the calibre of candidates is so high, we turn away so many people who are eminently capable because there is one place for every 20+ applicants. When I applied (1999) it was more like twice as many applicants as TCs!

Some people keep applying for years to get a TC (and some never succeed). That's a long time to be in limbo while you wonder when it's "safe" to have another baby without scuppering your chances career wise.

I will also add that your chances of getting a TC (or indeed SQE or CILEX placement) will be vastly improved by work experience, hence my advice to get paralegal work ASAP. It will help your CV stand out among other identikit ones with a 2.1 and LLM.

Practically speaking it is HARD to work in law (particularly litigation) with small children. It's possible but it's tough especially as a junior as you have to work to the timescales, appointments and tasks set by the senior lawyers. When I had my first child I went back FT after 4 months. I felt I was likely to get quietly managed out otherwise as I didn't yet have the experience or client following to give me any unique "value" to my employer and there was a very keen (male) NQ who'd taken over my cases during my ML and was clearly pissed off when I returned so quickly. I spent little time with my son during the week. I had to "make it count" during weekends and annual leave. I don't think it harmed him though as he's now nearly 17 and planning a law degree/ career in law himself!

Then there was a lovely interim period where I was more senior but had control over my own diary etc. During these years I had a second child. I was still FT but the work/ life balance was much more manageable.

Then I became a partner and the extra responsibility has piled on the hours and pressure again, not least because I'm directly answerable to clients (as well as line managing two teams, business development etc. ) Thanks to covid though I'm now WFH 50% of the time so at least I see more of my kids even though I'm often in front of a laptop! This is a city firm but not top commercial one, mainly insurance clients and supposedly with a good work/life balance. To be fair if I hadn't gone for partnership it probably would be.

One last thing. You seem reliant on your partner financially. You should really protect yourself with marriage especially if you bear the burden of primary parenting and household stuff.

thank you . this is helpful

@JumperandJacket what is fishy about this thread ? im confused

@honeylulu

I'm reading this thread with interest as I'm a solicitor and had my first child early in my career (admittedly at 1 year PQE rather than before TC).

I've had a look at BPP's site and it seems there is an option to do the PGDL with a top up module which escalates it to an LLM. I'm guessing that is what you did hence your remarks about not needing a GDL.

If you do a TC you will need to fit in the LPC before you start (funding it yourself if necessary). Bigger firms in particular often recruit two years in advance but traditionally this is in year 2 of a degree so the two year "break" is for the final year of uni and then one year FT LPC; it's not really a "break" at all. At my firm candidates who can start sooner are often not given the full two years. Even if you secure a TC with full two year wait, it's still not a spare 2 years to fill (with a pregnancy and baby for example!) as you need to spend either a year FT LPC or two years PT LPC.

If you do the SQE or CILEX route you don't need the LPC, but if you start one of those routes now, there won't be a starting "break" at all either.

My recommendation would be to start paralegalling now + looking for a SQE or CILEX placement. Paralegal work will bring you (a) income, albeit modest (b) experience in the legal industry and (c) useful stuff for your applications which may possibly be at the same firm you are paralegalling for. Once you are formally employed and are building up maternity leave rights you can consider how/ when a second child might fit in with your qualification path. Otherwise you'll just keep drifting.

I'm advising, I think, steering away from the TC path for various reasons . As PPs have said TCs are now SO hard to get, even harder if you want/ need a firm who funds your LPC. I'm on the recruitment panel for my firm and honestly the calibre of candidates is so high, we turn away so many people who are eminently capable because there is one place for every 20+ applicants. When I applied (1999) it was more like twice as many applicants as TCs!

Some people keep applying for years to get a TC (and some never succeed). That's a long time to be in limbo while you wonder when it's "safe" to have another baby without scuppering your chances career wise.

I will also add that your chances of getting a TC (or indeed SQE or CILEX placement) will be vastly improved by work experience, hence my advice to get paralegal work ASAP. It will help your CV stand out among other identikit ones with a 2.1 and LLM.

Practically speaking it is HARD to work in law (particularly litigation) with small children. It's possible but it's tough especially as a junior as you have to work to the timescales, appointments and tasks set by the senior lawyers. When I had my first child I went back FT after 4 months. I felt I was likely to get quietly managed out otherwise as I didn't yet have the experience or client following to give me any unique "value" to my employer and there was a very keen (male) NQ who'd taken over my cases during my ML and was clearly pissed off when I returned so quickly. I spent little time with my son during the week. I had to "make it count" during weekends and annual leave. I don't think it harmed him though as he's now nearly 17 and planning a law degree/ career in law himself!

Then there was a lovely interim period where I was more senior but had control over my own diary etc. During these years I had a second child. I was still FT but the work/ life balance was much more manageable.

Then I became a partner and the extra responsibility has piled on the hours and pressure again, not least because I'm directly answerable to clients (as well as line managing two teams, business development etc. ) Thanks to covid though I'm now WFH 50% of the time so at least I see more of my kids even though I'm often in front of a laptop! This is a city firm but not top commercial one, mainly insurance clients and supposedly with a good work/life balance. To be fair if I hadn't gone for partnership it probably would be.

One last thing. You seem reliant on your partner financially. You should really protect yourself with marriage especially if you bear the burden of primary parenting and household stuff.

This is all good advice save that there is some misunderstanding about CILEX.

You don't need to have a placement to do CILEX, you don't need an employer to support or fund CILEX. That is the beauty of it. You can do CILEX while working as a paralegal or similar role. You can do the exams at whatever pace you like and take breaks if needed. It is really flexible and designed to be done alongside full time work.

With a GDL the OP would be exempt from the first tranche of exams too.

I am a solicitor in private practice but a big supporter of the CILEX route as it improves diversity within the profession and opens access while also providing great on the job experience.

Thanks for adding that @JesusMaryAndJosephAndTheWeeDon

I wasn't properly aware of how CILEX works and I agree the flexibility of it sounds great.

@JesusMaryAndJosephAndTheWeeDon With the Cilex route would you need to only choose field to specialize in? I believe that is what i gathered when i went on their website

@JesusMaryAndJosephAndTheWeeDon yes, my previous firm was very much in favour of this

[quote Kimonolady]@Bluntness100 and others confused about the OP’s qualifications - BPP offer the possibility of adding an additional module to your GDL which means that you receive a ‘LLM Law and Legal Practice.’

This is a popular option because it means that you qualify for a post-grad gov loan, which you wouldn’t if you were simply doing the GDL.

So when the OP says that she has a LLM, I assume this is what she’s done - she’s studied the GDL (9 compulsory modules) and then added one further module (BPP offer a ‘professional project’, ‘BTC Part 1’ or ‘SQE prep’) so that it is classified as a LLM.

It’s not at all like studying a Masters at UCL/King’s/etc., where you spend a year studying law at a higher, masters level. OP’s legal studies to date are the same as any other GDL graduate, save that she has added on one further module.

It was a popular option when I studied my GDL, not because it has any value (I have to say I don’t think it does) but because it enables you to take out the loan.[/quote]
You are right to an extent with the part about the professional project , however the 9 compulsory modules studied by the GDL, LLm students study these but to a higher masters level . With the LLM you are required to have more academic and scholarly knowledge on the subject on law . This was told to me by my tutors .

@Kimonolady and it is just like studying a masters at any university because it enables you to teach at an undergraduate level which the GDL doesnt.

@89redballoons Thank you. I will contact Bpp for more information. I thought i would try mumsnet first and i know most people on here are mums so would be able to relate