Training as a solicitor / working full time as a mum

[Motherofking]

I have just completed my Masters in Law, I have done a few vacations schemes and opens days and i am planning to apply for training contracts. I have a 1 and a half year old so no plans to look for training contracts in city law firms , Just international law firms, national and regional firms which offer a better life work balance. Can someone give me tips on how i can manage a full time job and be a full time mum . I will put my son in nursery but i want us to spend alot of time together, i dont want to spend the only hours i have at home cleaning or cooking id rather spend it with him ?

And another question, alot of training contracts give you the job two / three years in advance, For example if i get the job in 2022 my start date will be 2024 or 2025. Would it be a bad idea to get pregnant and have a baby within that gap. I really want another baby especially because once i start my career i dont want to have any more babies. I just want to keep working until i am established enough within my career without any breaks or interruptions.

Overall thanks for the advice. I may have missed a few comments but will read through this thread again and take the useful advice on board . If anyone has anything else to add that could help me then feel free to add on. But commenting on my grammar or spelling mistake is not helpful, all it does it make this thread even longer therefore making it even harder to find the valuable advice that i have been given

[quote Motherofking]@Kimonolady and it is just like studying a masters at any university because it enables you to teach at an undergraduate level which the GDL doesnt.[/quote]
I am not sure this is right. Most law (and any subject really) faculties require a PhD these days. Or to be a lawyer. But an LLM/GDL combination would not be enough.

With the replacement for the PETTLs course though you could probably teach A level law in an FE/sixth form college (probably not a school though as you need QTS).

@ColinTheKoala I was told that with an LLM you could be a junior lecturer.

The only other thing I would take into account - and you may already have - is childcare and commuting time. That is another thing that will narrow your options.

I did a non-UK law degree (with a few extra modules to qualify me for a UK LPC) but found it very difficult to find a training contract. This was because name-brand recognition is super important for university and although my uni is considered excellent in my home country, no one here has ever heard of it. (Also my secondary school was a poor rural school with few facilities, we just didn't have the kind of Duke of Edinburgh-type achievements people here expect to see.)

In the end I did find a regional firm where the lawyers would stick their head around the door at 6pm and remind me I wasn't paid well enough to stay late! But it was a 1.5 hour commute each way until we moved house in my second year and then it fell to only a 45-50 min drive.

Part of the reason I work where I do now is that I worked out the commuting time, and the childcare, to be able to be sure I could make the minimum hours. And we factored that in when buying the house - literally sat there with Google maps and the National rail timetable to make sure I'd be able to do it. But more is always needed, so I work through lunch to deliver that and there were still late nights.

I had a very strict routine: eldest to school breakfast club for 7:30, toddler to childminder for 7:40, car parked at home at 7:45 and on train at 7:54.

Working from home has been easier but I have more seniority (responsibility!) now and although I have one of the more flexible part-time arrangements mentioned a few times in thread, I still do often work on my non work days and log on after kids in bed or start before the school run.

I think there is lots of confusion because it looks like the standard LLM that BPP offer doesn’t work as a conversion course (PGDL) but there is a separate course that is a conversion course that tops up to be an LLM.
I can’t work out if OP is aware that most LLM purses don’t count as conversion courses?
Whilst in theory you may be able to lecture with the LLM I very much doubt anyone would hire you without any industry experience.

Doh, forgot my main point which was that your options for childcare are narrowed as well as depending on where you live it can be hard to find childcare prepared to offer you the hours you need to deliver a full day's work plus your travel time. Most childminders start at 8 where I am, I had to look for ages until I could get someone who would do 7:40 and even then half the time I would be standing on her doorstep ringing the bell on a dark winter's morning, worrying about making my train if the door didn't open - and she'd come down in her dressing gown having clearly been woken up by me.

One option if you don't want to work long hours would be to train with the government. 9-5 is quite usual there (though in some places it might be more like 9-6). The pays nowhere near as good as private firms but there's little expectation to work long hours (and certainly if you have kids no one would expect a trainee to work late unless there were exceptional circumstances) and the pension is good. If you went into the employment or commercial teams you could easily move into private practice later on if you wanted to (and you could from some other teams too but may be more tricky).

Former solicitor here with 11 years PQE and mum of two. You are very young and certainly have a few options. I currently work in the legal training side. I think you need to consider applying for the LPC or going down another route ,such as that with a legal education provider, of which there are good few and CILEx being one. It is a long road but certainly very doable for you. Realistically you are looking at another year or two of study as you need your LPC or equivalent to practice. Some firms are taking on apprenticeships also where you can be on the road to qualify whilst working.
I certainly know of woman who have had children young and then gone on to qualify as Solicitors.
Wishing you lots of luck.

@3WildOnes

I think there is lots of confusion because it looks like the standard LLM that BPP offer doesn’t work as a conversion course (PGDL) but there is a separate course that is a conversion course that tops up to be an LLM. I can’t work out if OP is aware that most LLM purses don’t count as conversion courses? Whilst in theory you may be able to lecture with the LLM I very much doubt anyone would hire you without any industry experience.

I never said I want to lecture . I am staying the difference between gdl and llm and one difference is that the llm allows you to lecture

@Chocolatetrifle

Former solicitor here with 11 years PQE and mum of two. You are very young and certainly have a few options. I currently work in the legal training side. I think you need to consider applying for the LPC or going down another route ,such as that with a legal education provider, of which there are good few and CILEx being one. It is a long road but certainly very doable for you. Realistically you are looking at another year or two of study as you need your LPC or equivalent to practice. Some firms are taking on apprenticeships also where you can be on the road to qualify whilst working. I certainly know of woman who have had children young and then gone on to qualify as Solicitors. Wishing you lots of luck.

Thank you . I will consider self funding the sqe as an option

@Bluntness100

Well I’m completely confused now. I cannot see why people are assuming she’s got her course name wrong and has done thr lpc already, as a combined course. If she’d done the lpc she’d not wish it be be paid for as part of a training contract and it would be unusual to be confused as to what course you’d done.

You can - or you could - do the LPC and add a dissertation and get a masters.

@wewereliars

Hi Op, a "global firm" is going to want someone who went to Oxbridge, or Durham, or failing that Bristol, Nottingham, Exeter etc. A global firm does corporate work, and your degree, in the current climate, is just not going to cut it.

I work as a Defendant, in house, and can see that the claimant firms, are increasingly desperate for work in the current climate. So you are going to struggle at the moment.

It's the top tier firms corporate firms who have the money to sponsor things like the SQE, so it's a bit of a catch 22 at the moment for juniors. And they will only pay if they really want the candidate. You are potentially throwing a lot of money at this, so think really hard at what you want from being a solicitor. Corpotate / global firms pay the most, have the deepest pockets, expect ridiculous hours and demand the best from applicants. High st practices have pretty much disappeared, and there are regional firms doing mainly private client work and some commercial, like Shoosmiths, Irwin Mitchell, etc.

Life in all theses places is very different, and if you get to interview you need to be able to show that you really want to work there, so you need to know in depth what the firm do and that you are able and willing to work hard and make a lot of money for them. FWIW my son has just got into Durham, and I have told him, not to go anywhere near law, as the rewards are not worth the effort, not for several years anyway, and not these days.

I didn't go to a very good uni and I work in a city firm in litigation.

Which areas of work are you seeing that aren't recruiting? You mention IM and Shoosmiths both of which are best known for injury work.

I've never enjoyed employment law (undergrad or post) but it does seem to be an extremely popular area. So many firms do it so depending on where you live, you won't have a shortage of firms to apply for.

But it doesn't sound like you're 100% up on the options available to you. In the early days none of the options, other than ILEX I suppose, fit brilliantly with small children but there are firms who are known as family friendly. Look for those.

* You can - or you could - do the LPC and add a dissertation and get a masters.*

The op hasn’t mentioned she’s done the LPC and then got a masters. So safe to say, she hasn’t.

Although on the basis of this thread…. Who knows

@3WildOnes

I think there is lots of confusion because it looks like the standard LLM that BPP offer doesn’t work as a conversion course (PGDL) but there is a separate course that is a conversion course that tops up to be an LLM. I can’t work out if OP is aware that most LLM purses don’t count as conversion courses? Whilst in theory you may be able to lecture with the LLM I very much doubt anyone would hire you without any industry experience.

This, I think posters have tried to be kind and posted well it can’t be just the llm it must be something more, but it appears not to be. It is just the llm. The op seems to think her llm enables her to progress to lpc which it does seem it does not, and now the whole thing of she is now qualified to lecture too, which seems highly unlikely to come about. I also can’t comprehend why she was accepted to do llm when she doesn’t meet the criteria, unless they needed bums on Seats.

I think there is so much confusion because what the op is posting is hard to comprehend, so op it’s best to speak to BPP and then do some research Ie try to apply for an lpc and see if you’d be accepted.

Do some research and then decide how to move forward. I think you’re on the right track but you really don’t understand what qualifications you have, nor what you need nor how to progress.

@lentilsforever

* You can - or you could - do the LPC and add a dissertation and get a masters.*

The op hasn’t mentioned she’s done the LPC and then got a masters. So safe to say, she hasn’t.

Although on the basis of this thread…. Who knows

No. She's done the GDL with a top up module to make an LLM. She's said she did it like this because you can't get funding for the GDL on its own anymore.

An interesting range of responses on this thread.

Op, in your shoes, I'd be carefully considering alternative routes of qualification, knowing how competitive the training contract process is.
I'd also think carefully about getting a foot in the door and working your way up - I did, and I didn't have to pay as I was awarded professional funding.

I'm now in litigation and have a wonderful work life balance. I'm 80% of FTE as I've had two children since qualifying but I work from home and flexibly. I don't earn mega bucks for the above reasons, but that's okay! I'm quite happy to clock off at 4 and spend time with my kids.
The flexibility and the trust in me that I will get my job done, is what keeps me at my firm.

No. She's done the GDL with a top up module to make an LLM. She's said she did it like this because you can't get funding for the GDL on its own anymore

No she’s not. She’s specifically said she’s not done the gdl and she did the llm because she could not get funding. If you look at bop’s llm it is not gdl.

I'm guessing it's this

@Bluntness100

No. She's done the GDL with a top up module to make an LLM. She's said she did it like this because you can't get funding for the GDL on its own anymore

No she’s not. She’s specifically said she’s not done the gdl and she did the llm because she could not get funding. If you look at bop’s llm it is not gdl.

You'll see from my screenshot that BPP do exactly the thing I was talking about.

Oh my. She has not done the gdml. Why is this so confusing to people.

She’s done a history degree then her llm at BPP.

She has done this and is very clear about it, she’s repeated herself several times. She is not confused as to what she’s done, she has not done something different to what she’s said, there is no need to guess, she’s stated it clearly several times.

www.bpp.com/courses/law/postgraduate/llm-master-of-laws

You'll see from my screenshot that BPP do exactly the thing I was talking about

So? That’s not what she did. That’s like saying to a history grad they must have done geography because it’s offered. The fact they do it is irrelevant, she’s been clear on what she’s done.

What type of litigation do people do to have a good work/life balance? I've had an awful work/life balance in fraud litigation (particularly international banking fraud). It has always been manic.

@Bluntness100

You'll see from my screenshot that BPP do exactly the thing I was talking about

So? That’s not what she did. That’s like saying to a history grad they must have done geography because it’s offered. The fact they do it is irrelevant, she’s been clear on what she’s done.

She's said she doesn't need to do a GDL because her masters is a GDL at master level - that doesn't make any sense so I'm going to bet on the fact she's done the GDL with an additional module to make it a masters.

She obviously hasn't done an actual LLM because she hasn't done any law based degree.

I love how you, a non-lawyer, like to tell people how to qualify and whether they will or won't get training contracts.

She's said she doesn't need to do a GDL because her masters is a GDL at master level - that doesn't make any sense so I'm going to bet on the fact she's done the GDL with an additional module to make it a masters

Look I’m going to ignore the personal attack you factored in at the end of your post, there’s no need for that.

And yes I know what she said, and no it doesn’t make sense, but she’s been very clear she’s done th llm. And only th lllm, which means she misunderstands what her course enables her to do, as opposed to she doesn’t know what course she studied..