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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Do you care about climate change?

389 replies

julieca · 05/11/2021 08:19

Not just in an abstract way. But would you be prepared to accept radical changes to your lifestyle to reduce climate change?
Or do you think continuing to live your life the way you want is more important?

YABU - No I don't and I want to continue living life as I want
YANBU - Yes I do and would accept major changes to my life

OP posts:
daimbarsatemydogsbone · 05/11/2021 10:01

Yes I care - and I'd take a cut in lifestyle etc.
Would cheerfully never fly again as it's such a miserable experience going to airports (so an easy win for me).
I am struggling to see how capitalism has any chance of delivering the changes we need - and no-one in the USA is going to ditch capitalism - anything "social" there is seen as evil.

Otherpeoplesteens · 05/11/2021 10:05

I'll be dead before climate change has any meaningful impact on the UK middle class

Not true. It's happening already:

www.theguardian.com/food/2021/nov/05/warning-over-extremely-low-wine-production-in-europe-due-to-bad-weather

derxa · 05/11/2021 10:11

One of the people lecturing farmers about rewilding is this man:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zac_Goldsmith He said that it wouldn't cost too much to buy a farmhouse and a few acres in the Highlands and start rewilding.
Zac Goldsmith who inherited 100s of millions from his dad and is married to a Rothschild.

Pazuzu · 05/11/2021 10:17

I care and do what I can (recycling etc) but I care less the more the professional activists try and ram it down my neck.

I'd also care a hell of a lot more if the population growth was ever being addressed but it's not.

Quick question. If we all went vegetarian, what would happen to the livestock?

BigYellowHat · 05/11/2021 10:19

No interest whatsoever

DrSbaitso · 05/11/2021 10:22

Like everyone else, I could give a list of things that I do already, and of course it's better that I do them than if I didn't. And they sound impressive when I list them all together. And I agree with a PP, whose list is very similar to mine, that they're minor changes really.

But would I really make massive personal sacrifices? Honestly...I don't know. I love travel, that's my passion, and I'd rather spend my money on experiencing new countries than on clothes or a larger house. So honestly, would I give up my chances of ever seeing the things I still want to see? I don't think I would, badly as I know that reflects on me. I could say it's offset by everything else I do, but I don't know if it really is. Wouldn't it be better if I really did never fly again except for weddings and funerals?

And I could saddle myself with a massive debt to buy an electric car, that I'd be paying off for years, but I haven't yet. I could say it's offset by the fact that our household had only one car and it's the most fuel efficient one we could afford at the time, and we bike a lot of the time, but is it really? Wouldn't it still be better if I did take out a huge loan and got the electric car?

bumbleymummy · 05/11/2021 10:22

We already do quite a lot and I’m not entirely happy with people who fly around on private jets and have huge motorcades dictating how the rest of us need to change our lives to save the planets. Think how much impact having COP26 via zoom would have had on Carbon emissions.

ComtesseDeSpair · 05/11/2021 10:22

Quick question. If we all went vegetarian, what would happen to the livestock?

I assume if everybody in the world suddenly decided to become vegan at midday next Wednesday then we’d have an stupendous surplus of meat and dairy animals and would have to slaughter them and burn their carcasses. In reality, this isn’t the way it would happen, so as demand for meat and dairy shrank as people gradually became vegan, farmers would simply reduce their breeding programmes to suit the reduced demand and livestock would gradually die out.

bumbleymummy · 05/11/2021 10:22

Planet Grin Not that the others aren’t important!

Sparklingbrook · 05/11/2021 10:23

I do what I can and feel able to. But I'm not going to be waving a banner or glueing myself to a Motorway any time soon.

Haven't voted because I prefer a proper AIBU and think we need a poll topic if that's what's needed.

EnidFrighten · 05/11/2021 10:25

I care but I think it's too much to ask people to do the right thing when it's not economically incentivised, eg paying more than a car costs to use public transport, spending £££ on home insulation

firstimemamma · 05/11/2021 10:25

Yes of course I care. I spent 18 months changing my life in major ways but sadly - as this thread highlights - many people don't care. Things need to change.

Stompythedinosaur · 05/11/2021 10:31

I think this is tricky.

I care, but in truth I am not jumping to sacrafice some aspects of my family's wellbeing when I think it will have limited impact as there aren't being universal changes made.

So, I am veggie, recycle etc, but I wasn't willing to not have dc (although I am well aware that having dc has the bigger impact). I am willing to be inconvenienced, but I am not willing to give up all my life desires and happiness.

Suspicioussam · 05/11/2021 10:33

I think so many of the issues are so hard to unravel. For example someone upthread said to ban marketing. If that happend and people stopped spending, what would happen to these companies? They would go into administration. That would mean huge job losses. How would we support all those people when the economy would collapse due to less revenue. We would have less money for services, NHS, benefits etc.
I would love to know what the answer is but it feels like we've backed ourselves into a corner that we can't get out of. If anyone knows more about this than me (as I dont know much about economics at all) I would love to know how you unravel it all whilst stopping us all falling into poverty and causing mass job losses.

derxa · 05/11/2021 10:34

@ComtesseDeSpair

Quick question. If we all went vegetarian, what would happen to the livestock?

I assume if everybody in the world suddenly decided to become vegan at midday next Wednesday then we’d have an stupendous surplus of meat and dairy animals and would have to slaughter them and burn their carcasses. In reality, this isn’t the way it would happen, so as demand for meat and dairy shrank as people gradually became vegan, farmers would simply reduce their breeding programmes to suit the reduced demand and livestock would gradually die out.

Would tribes people such as the Masai able to keep their animals? What would they eat?
Otherpeoplesteens · 05/11/2021 10:38

Quick question. If we all went vegetarian, what would happen to the livestock?

Interesting question. My educated guess is that there will always be a demand for cow's milk; it's not as if human babies who cannot be breast-fed can really feed on much else. A milk industry will inevitably lead to the existence of male calves, which might as well be slaughtered for food. Same with the chickens and the eggs, if you'll pardon the expression - I can't see eggs disappearing because they are used in medicines and all sorts.

And then in the UK, one of our bigger carbon sinks is grassland and livestock are a fairly integral part of the management of said grassland.

Then you've got wild animals which still make up part of the food chain. Deer and so on are still going to have to be culled from time to time if we want to keep bio-systems balanced.

Finally, there are plenty who just will not give up meat. The likes of Bill Gates who, when not flying hundreds of people thousands of miles in private jets to birthday parties and then lecturing us about the environment, has stated that he is not willing to give up his daily hamburger. I know quite a few South Americans, very well-educated and well-travelled ones who regard it as their birthright to consume as much beef as they want.

Honestly, I can't see the world becoming wholly vegetarian, at least not for a while. What I suspect will happen is that in more enlightened parts of the world meat consumption will form an ever-smaller part of a 'flexitarian' diet, there will be trade protectionism for producers, and prices will rise sharply to reflect higher expectations on welfare, regulation and reduced economies of scale. And, almost certainly, punitive taxation.

Elsewhere rainforests will still be slashed and burned for cheap grain-fed meat with little thought for the consequences.

bumbleymummy · 05/11/2021 10:38

Would tribes people such as the Masai able to keep their animals? What would they eat?

I think it’s more mass food production and intensive farming that is causing the problems. If we were all still living in small tribes and keeping a few animals for our own use, I doubt it would be having as much of a global impact.

DrSbaitso · 05/11/2021 10:39

I also get confused, if I'm honest.

We should be vegan, but not consume avocados or almonds and almond products. We should buy local, but what if you need to drive to get to the local greengrocer and the supermarket can deliver in an electric van? We should take out loans for solar panels and electric cars, but how do we know if our lender invests in fossil fuels?

Clearly action must be taken, but I can understand why a lot of people might truly not know what to do for the best in many cases.

ComtesseDeSpair · 05/11/2021 10:39

Would tribes people such as the Masai able to keep their animals? What would they eat?

I can’t imagine that people whose lifestyles and livelihoods revolve around tending livestock would choose to become vegetarian or vegan.

I was answering a question from a poster who asked what would happen to livestock if we all stopped eating meat. The answer being that we wouldn’t end up overrun with billions of sheep and cows because farmers would just reduce or stop breeding them.

Flouts1 · 05/11/2021 10:41

No I don’t even give it a thought
I’m not about to sacrifice my lifestyle and
wellbeing until the people at the top do it first and are doing it visually so we can all see that they are doing it .
By the top I mean politicians, royal families around the world rich celebrities and rich people and businesses.

When they stop flying around the world on a jet to lecture about climate change or there next holiday I might consider it
But as that isn’t going to happen I’m not in a rush to change anything .

So I will carry on with my 3 -4 holidays abroad each year and carry on driving my diesel suv
I’m not going to stop eating meat
I’m not going to cycle or use public transport that’s expensive and inconvenient

OakPine · 05/11/2021 10:46

There are a few things that make a big difference
Eat a lot less meat and dairy, none if you can.
Drive and fly a lot less, none if you can.
Insulate your house.

Once you have done those three as much as you can, then if you can afford it solar panels, heat pump, electric car.

Please please try not to say that you won’t do anything because China, because India, because People in SUVs.

I want to tell my children and grandchildren if I have any. “Once I knew, I did everything I could!”

Whoopsies · 05/11/2021 10:47

I care, but I'm sure I could do more. We eat meat, but not every day, we eat cheese, but have plant based milks, we have a car, but only use at the weekends, we recycle, but only what can be done at home. We are slowly making steps to be better though, going to visit a refill shop this weekend for cleaning supplies/toiletries etc to try and cut down on plastics in the house!

Tumtitumtum · 05/11/2021 10:48

Yes because working in agriculture you can see the changes first hand in food production. But that’s why I also get totally fucking frustrated by the fake care soppy single view policies GO VEGAN! Won’t help at all in this country and all it’s doing is driving investment in monocropping and Silicon Valley tech which is going to destroy our ability to safely feed future generations and for wealth to be spread.

INSULATE - ok with what? Plastic fibres? What? And where from? Shipped from where to shitty old houses you would be better ripping down and building eco including renewable natural insulation.

Electric cars!! Ok the mining for the batteries is ripping the earth apart too? Where do they go where they die? Is the electricity they use green?

It’s why I work specifically with organisations trying to promote more rounded environmental views, the government (and government) is going to take us single policy, individual action is of course important but to be honest if companies don’t drive this (which luckily they are), and we don’t reduce population growth in China and India, and get the USA to wake up, we are pretty much fucked.

jpbee · 05/11/2021 10:49

I feel bad saying it, but I wouldn't make any radical changes voluntarily and off my own back. I would always wait until they are made mandatory.
I will and do make small changes of course, many of them are so simple they are barely an inconvenience, but they aren't on the scale of the major changes you are referring to.

I personally only know one couple who are making radical changes off their own back and they are very wealthy and retired so it is much more accessible to them - I still respect them for it though as they don't 'have' to do it.

Gonnagetgoing · 05/11/2021 10:49

I watched Shop Well For the Planet recently and that was an eye opener, lots of things you could do like make your own cleaners, refills, recyclable electric toothbrush heads etc.

I would say that lots of things like recycled tin foil etc are expensive, so are refilled fabric softener etc - and some of it isn't as good as non eco brands.

Also, cars - I can't afford to replace my car to a hybrid or electric yet but a friend of mine (who earns more etc) bought a new electric car as it was cheaper than buying a second hand electric one.

I don't have much locally produced food (apart from maybe eggs in a local pet shop which their chickens lay) as I'm South East London.

What was interesting was in the programme they showed the Asda Sustainability Store outside Leeds apparently opened a year ago and I am staggered why more if not all supermarkets can't do this, as the savings in cost and also for the environment are clear to see - no plastic packaging on fruit and veg etc yet my local supermarket rarely does this and the farmers market is more expensive. Asda said more shoppers had switched to buying washing machine liquid via the refill station than buying it off the shelf. Big businesses could do so much more.

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