To ask how drivers of massive SUVs square it with themselves in terms of climate change?

[Bleepingtons]

Same goes for those who go long haul on the regular? Buy loads of cheap, disposable fashion? Etc etc? Do you just not worry about climate change?

I know I sound sanctimonious but I am genuinely baffled by people driving massive diesel SUVs like there isn't a major issue.

I think if people focused their righteous anger at the multi billion dollar industries behind those consumer choices, instead of at individuals we might affect real change.

But instead environmentalism is the new religion, and like all religions the purpose is to feel sanctimonious and look down on others.

In fact, the rhetoric of this new religion is as worrying as Isis, the Spanish Inquisition and witch hunting. We’re constantly hearing about over population which undermines the sanctity of life and is a short step from promoting genocide in some form.

@traintraveller

Why are these threads never how do people who have children and eat meat square it with themselves in terms of climate change?

Children and eating meat are brought up frequently on threads around the environment. I’m fact asking about children is often one of the first questions posed to someone bringing up the environmental effect of anything else. Maybe people don’t start threads about it (nothing is stopping you though) but it definitely doesn’t go undiscussed.

The government of course need to do more rather than put onus on the people.
It’s ridiculous that there are new trade agreements between U.K. and New Zealand. No mention of environmental impact of that regarding food miles.

I know I sound sanctimonious but I am genuinely baffled by people driving massive diesel SUVs like there isn't a major issue.

I have owned our 15 year old Land Rover for about 10 years. As others have observed, at that time there wasn't so much hatred for them.

I'd just like you to tell me what you expect us to do? We live semi-rurally but I will accept our car isn't really "necessary". We have a cheap but large caravan (large because there are generally 4 of us) the Land Rover is one of the few cars that will tow it properly.

What do want me to do? Sell the caravan and Land Rover and buy some kind of car people like you won't sneer at? What would that be - keeping in mind I won't get a lot for a 15 year old car and I don't have a pile of cash for a new one. I really want to know what OP and the others sneering would expect us to do.

Op, I’m curious. Do you have children or have a bigger than 1 bedroom house?

I drive a 3 litre Audi Sq5 with a twin turbocharged V6 engine and enjoy every minute of it. I take it you don't have a phone, use fossil fuels, drive your own car, travel abroad, eat meat, only have one child etc?

We own 2. We have a large family and prioritised their safety when we drove on windy country roads. But on the flip side, we've moved into a town so we can walk to the shops and the school meaning the cars won't be needed as much. Husbands next car due next month is electric, and I'm currently saving for a 7 seater Tesla.

Because we have a three children and regularly go camping. Also need to be able to fit a pump truck in for work purposes.

I don't own one but aren't all cars going to be electric soon anyway?
Maybe you should focus your anger on the counties that wouldn't sign the no coal agreement today.
Or the rich people in going everywhere in their private jets or up to space in their rockets 🤨

US and China need to be on board otherwise we are fucked

We have a very small car, no DC and we never fly even short-haul. I also buy 90% of my clothes second hand. But in all honesty, it isn't concern for climate change that was the primary factor in those decisions.

• We don't need a big car with just two of us, so that's a practical and financial decision.
• On the odd occasion of holidaying abroad when I was younger, I found it too hot and stressful.
• There are dozens of reasons why I don't want children
• I prefer the experience of bargain-hunting for interesting vintage clothes in charity shops/eBay. It's boring to walk into New Look and just pick your size out of 20 identical skirts that half the town is wearing.

I’d feel a total idiot in an SUV, though probably a bit safer…?? I also wonder if those people actually care, but I’m assuming they’re too busy planing their next long haul flight to their second home.

I have a massive SUV. It's a e-tron 100% electric So do I get tarred with the same disgust ?

I don't have kids, so I have a free pass on everything else. :)

@cushtastic

I’d feel a total idiot in an SUV, though probably a bit safer…?? I also wonder if those people actually care, but I’m assuming they’re too busy planing their next long haul flight to their second home.

I've explained why we have ours. We don't fly and no second home. Fancy stopping your sneering?

I have 2 x ancient diesel 4x4s used largely for towing. Which electric cars are no good at. I am childfree by choice. To quote Doug Stanhope, as I have no children I can drive a fleet of 4x4s while lobbing polystyrene out of the windows and I am still infinitely more eco than anyone who has kids.

Also- I wonder how many people judging SUV drivers have never bothered to insulate their houses properly? It amazes me how many people in the UK live in freezing houses. The previous owner of my house used to have electric heaters running on top of radiators. One of the first thing we did was put in appropriate insulation, put seals under doors, repaired windows that were bleeding cold air, etc. Can we add those who can afford to insulate, but don’t, to the blacklist?

Is the OP coming back?

We don’t care about the environment because by the time it all goes properly to pot, those of us guilty of doing the things you describe will be dead and gone. Is that the correct answer to your goady question OP?

I think most people feel that the sacrifices that can be made on an individual level will barely move the needle and thus aren't "worth" it, especially those who read the actual reports rather than the media reporting, and see that the reports discuss a range of scenarios some of which are increasingly unlikely to actually occur. The media tend to focus on the extreme/unlikely scenarios.

Most people feel that where the biggest changes need to be made is on a corporateindustrial level that they can't control or influence - business air travel, energy generation in china, manufacturing the US, mining in Australia etc etc.

I do think most people are trying to consume and waste less.

But for many people their lifestyle is based on owning a car to get to work etc. If you can't get rid of a car entirely and electric isnt an option due to the practical limitations, it might feel like the difference between diesel SUV and petrol Ford focus is simply fairly marginal.

The reality is that the idea of guilting individuals into the idea that climate change is all their fault and individuals need to do all the changing was one set up by the fossil fuel industry in the early days.

We need policy and system change if we’re going to have any success at all. Individual behaviour change on the scale we need, without those choices being enabled and edited by government policy and corporate action, is not going to get it done.

We have an diesel SUV because DHs job means he needs to use certain features that smaller electric cars don’t have. We also drive long distances and granted, we could have really got a hybrid but we couldn’t afford it at the time of needing a big powerful car with 4x4. Equally, we could’ve got a gas guzzling truck but chose a more compact, environmentally friendly and economic vehicle.

As a family, we are hyper aware of our carbon footprint and do our utmost to do what we can. We don’t meat, we grow a lot of our own veg and make our own compost, 90% of our clothing is 2nd hand (some of the kids stuff is even 3rd!), we reuse and recycle, we use minimal waste shopping options where we can, we don’t fly.

It’s a balance and it always will be a balance. When you pick on very specific aspects of “what’s bad for the environment” you’re not helping, you’re being part of the problem.

@AlphabetAerobics

Don’t go to the supermarket OP. I weep every time I see an avocado or bunch of asparagus in a trolley. 😭

You only weep? I wail, tear my clothes, and writhe around on the floor.

Haven’t flown in near 10years don’t own one home let alone a second home. We reuse our tent and camp every year and buy from the local farm shops putting into the local economy.

We also started our own local company which means transporting heavy items. We also have an allotment and grow a lot of our own food.

My eco credentials are probably much better than some of those Tesla drivers

Agree OP, I struggle to understand it too! I am thinking either ignorance or selfishness is at the root of it. These things need to become socially unacceptable for change to happen and even then some stubborn types will persist ‘because they’re worth it’