To ask how drivers of massive SUVs square it with themselves in terms of climate change?

[Bleepingtons]

Same goes for those who go long haul on the regular? Buy loads of cheap, disposable fashion? Etc etc? Do you just not worry about climate change?

I know I sound sanctimonious but I am genuinely baffled by people driving massive diesel SUVs like there isn't a major issue.

Again, it's easy to blame China's emissions but they are only so high because we've outsourced so much of manufacturing to China. I used to have a small product based business and you would be surprised if you knew just how much is made in China - even lots of items sold by small independent designers in the UK from hats to jewellery, it's all made in China, and so are most phones, laptops etc. we rely on daily.

[quote LittleGwyneth]@JassyRadlett Perhaps, but honestly if I didn't buy clothes we all know nothing would actually change. Space tourism, China and India's emissions, I just don't feel bad in comparison.[/quote]
I’m not asking you to feel bad. We all make choices.

But we do need to be realistic that high consumption is the primary driver of climate change. Just because others are worse doesn’t mean our actions - and how they’re normalised within our own parts of society - don’t have an impact.

Let’s at least be honest with ourselves? The fashion industry is really carbon intensive. A lot of that is in the fabric production - crops, fossil fuels, water. Water is the particularly huge one, according to the world bank.

The choices we make help to normalise those choices and also help to create markets. If you switched your £250 a month to BCI or even better organic cotton only clothes, prioritised companies that have made inroads on cleaning up their supply chains, lobby places like Zara to clean up their act and only buy from their sustainable lines, you’d have less of an impact.

Just like me buying more expensive, local and organic meat less often isn’t removing the impact of my choices, but my money is going towards businesses that have less of an impact.

I’ve said a lot I think so much of this is on government and businesses to set the right standards. But there are things that all of us can do, and we need to be open and realistic about that.

I suspect (and hope) than in a decade the consumption levels we have today - particularly around tolerance for food waste and throwaway fashion and electronics - will be socially a whole lot less acceptable.

@ChrissyPlummer
I used to live in Hong Kong and travelled around cities in China extensively. Agree the amount of plastic waste was truly astronomical and very little awareness amongst the general public of recycling etc.

It made me quite depressed really as it just seemed futile bothering to recycle anything (our apartment block of 300 apartments had one small recycling bin for the entire block - this was 5 years ago so hopefully that’s improved!).
We really need China to be fully on board to have any hope with reducing climate change. But I do think we can do our own part by not buying cheap Chinese made goods where possible. Too many electronic items are effectively disposable. We need to create a culture of only buying items of good quality that can be repaired/reused.

UK population 1951 50.6 million
UK population 2001 59.1 million (+9m in 50 years)
UK population 2021 68.4 million (+9m in 10 years)
(All figures approximate)
Consumption is the problem, not just who's driving an SUV (I don't.)
Scrapping a car with an ICE in exchange for a new electric vehicle is a huge waste of resources: both materials (most of which cannot be recycled efficiently) and energy, including embodied energy.

(Sorry, 2001 - 2021 obviously 20 years)

But I do think we can do our own part by not buying cheap Chinese made goods where possible

It’s really really hard not to buy Chinese made goods, cheap or not cheap.

@EvilPea

But I do think we can do our own part by not buying cheap Chinese made goods where possible

It’s really really hard not to buy Chinese made goods, cheap or not cheap.

but you can avoid buying tat like stuff for party bags or new baubles for Christmas trees or Halloween tat.

Or replacing your kitchen every 4 years because you're bored with it.

Or using patio heaters.

For me all of the above is an easy win. Other things not so much.

Something tells me they’re not bitching anywhere near as much about a bloke in an Audi A8, of the person driving the high-mode Ford Focus Estate which has higher emissions than the Kuga

oh we bitch about Audi drivers on principle

It's ironic when they are purchased as a status thing, given how many people judge rather than envy the owners but there are enough people who envy and don't think of the eco-issues. For me it's not the climate per se - it's about local air pollution. Which currently is killing more people in the UK than climate change.

@EvilPea
It’s really really hard not to buy Chinese made goods, cheap or not cheap.

It’s not the fact that products are Chinese that’s the problem. It’s that they’re cheap and disposable. What their factories produce is driven by demand. If we insist on buying better quality then that’s what they’ll make.

Don’t know about anyone else’s but my SUV is more efficient than 90% of the cars on the road.

They don’t care

I find MN a strange place full of contradictions sometimes. I mean I know its made up of thousands of individuals with their own opinions but there are often a lot of views that don't really correlate (and im sure some of them belong to the same people!)
So ....every other person and/or their DH earns 6 figures...
...but also there's lots of intense hatred for SUVs and landlords.
I feel sure there would be a large crossover in these demographics where you may well have a second home (or multiple properties) and an expensive (gas guzzling) car if you're in the top income bracket.

Everyone is super concerned about the environment ...and yet you're declared complete minger if you don't have 4 showers a day and wash your jeans after one wear....

No one trusts anyone else's kitchen or food hygeine standards but makes their own chicken last 10 days!

Back to the original thread, my DH read a stat that apparently eating a leg of lamb was as bad for the environment as a transatlantic flight.
The last long haul flight I went on was probably 17 years ago, but I've eaten a lot of meat since then!
I think sometimes an SUV is an easy target to pick on but I'm sure there are things that are just as bad that escape such hatred. (I don't have an SUV btw)

We have one car, with an economical petrol engine, a 1.0 that does 50 to 60 to the gallon. I would love to go electric when we replace. But that will depend on the cost and the range. We recycle, use local services, do not use the car for short journeys, don't buy tons of unnecessary clothes and try to live as environmentally friendly as we can. I can't see us going on long haul hols in the future. However it really annoys me when I read of unnecessary large waste of resources - billionaires going into space because they can. In the summer, an empty train ran from London to Glasgow to try to beat a speed record. Why? At least 3,000 gallons of diesel that would have taken. As much as I would use driving in 25 years. A stupid woman on Jeremy Vine this morning showing off her early Christmas decorations. A house full of plastic, Chinese made crap. Because it makes her happy. FFS why am I bothering.

The cost of long distance trains is frankly criminal.
It shouldn’t be cheaper to fly within the main land uk.

Yes wood burning stoves should be banned

Easy to say if you have easy access to other forms of energy. Our wood burning stove is our primary source of heating. What do you suggest we use to replace it?

Note, we are totally off-grid. As in no mains services at all.

You are bothering because

Every little does help a little, save a few lives

You don't want to have to admit you didn't bother to future generations

You know that the normalisation of ethical lifestyles pushes society. Compared to 10 years ago, the uk has much greener electricity , we eat much less meat and diary , wearing the same dress twice is common on tv news presenter ,

all sorts of things that are making many of those with high carbon lifestyles start to feel left out, less trendsetter than they used to be

@EvilPea

The cost of long distance trains is frankly criminal. It shouldn’t be cheaper to fly within the main land uk.

Totally

[quote LivesinLondon2000]@EvilPea
It’s really really hard not to buy Chinese made goods, cheap or not cheap.

It’s not the fact that products are Chinese that’s the problem. It’s that they’re cheap and disposable. What their factories produce is driven by demand. If we insist on buying better quality then that’s what they’ll make.[/quote]
I agree with that, you should be able to repair washing machines etc easier.

Cars are one that’s going the other way. It’s getting harder and harder for your local garage to repair them due to the plug in diagnostics getting more expensive and more brand specific. The hourly rates can almost be double.

Yes OP, you do sound sanctimonious. We used to have a diesel SUV. At the time it was the only vehicle we could afford that would carry 2 adults, 2 teenagers, a large dog, tent and camping gear. Thus allowing us to have a holiday. Which I except is also not environmentally friendly.
Not to mention ferrying visiting relatives around as they didn’t want the expense of hiring a vehicle or using public transport. Not to mention how useful it was for moving building materials or furniture….
We sold it when the DCs left home.
For everyday trips ( including my DH’s 20km daily commute) we used various combinations of bicycles ( with trailer for the weekly supermarket shop) , public transport or my tiny old petrol car.
Really not understanding why I’m supposed to be feeling guilty for using the best vehicle for the purpose?

My massive SUV is pretty average in terms of emissions of new cars. Would love to know what car the OP drives so I can compare.

Our other car is full electric so I guess that makes us pretty confused

Well, I'm going to be very smug and declare I don't own or drive a car, haven't been on a plane for the last decade, don't eat meat, only buy second hand and adopted my second child! But tbf that's largely because I lacked the money for other choices (apart from the second child - that was nothing to do with money). If I had more choices, I too might find that it's impossible to raise children without a car, or that foreign holidays are a must have.

So I'm not judging, but it's a shame that so many people have used this thread to justify themselves rather than explore how changing our lives to save the planet is and will be so bloody hard. If it doesn't hurt you're not doing it right, and nobody wants to deprive their kids and the thought of what climate change will do to their lives is just too painful to dwell on.

Sadly, the time will come when we can't avoid it any longer, and when we will have to stop pointing fingers and start working together to dismantle our lifestyles.

You are not being the slightest bit unreasonable. You are aware that the climate has reached tipping point. Too many others have their fingers in their ears and their eyes tight shut.
And, despite what other posters have said, it is perfectly possible to live even in the countryside with children (including severely disabled children) and a job and not be obliged to drive or own a car.
You are selective about how remote your house is, check bus routes, use buses to keep the routes going, shop local, grow food, buy clothes and consumer durables second hand, and encourage cycling.
Save that petrol-driven engine for when your child needs to be blue-lighted to hospital.
Choice is a luxury Plenty of people do without it. And the next generation won't have any choice unless we stop being so damn selfish

When China et al change their ways so will I. UK = 1% global emissions don't forget.

www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-uks-co2-emissions-have-fallen-29-per-cent-over-the-past-decade

Well if we stopped buying stuff from China it would help it reduce its emissions

How many months can you go without buying anything but food?