To ask how drivers of massive SUVs square it with themselves in terms of climate change?

[Bleepingtons]

Same goes for those who go long haul on the regular? Buy loads of cheap, disposable fashion? Etc etc? Do you just not worry about climate change?

I know I sound sanctimonious but I am genuinely baffled by people driving massive diesel SUVs like there isn't a major issue.

I have just bought a medium sized petrol SUV, changing up from what most people would regard as a city car. I got the new car because I want to go camping, take the (large) dog with us and transport our bikes. The new car is petrol, it has the same sized engine as the old baby car and returns better fuel economy. Lot of the medium sized cars now have small turbo charged engines with better performance and enhanced fuel economy. I don't think I have anything to concern myself about.

@ExConstance

I have just bought a medium sized petrol SUV, changing up from what most people would regard as a city car. I got the new car because I want to go camping, take the (large) dog with us and transport our bikes. The new car is petrol, it has the same sized engine as the old baby car and returns better fuel economy. Lot of the medium sized cars now have small turbo charged engines with better performance and enhanced fuel economy. I don't think I have anything to concern myself about.

I mean people will still call you anyway because they’ve decided they hate all SUV drivers and they’re short on critical thinking skills and the ability to look at evidence.

Something tells me they’re not bitching anywhere near as much about a bloke in an Audi A8, of the person driving the high-mode Ford Focus Estate which has higher emissions than the Kuga.

[quote julieca]@Rummikub in Britain we are ditching traditional farming and moving to larger-scale intensive farming that absolutely is a problem. And the government is encouraging this by giving older farmers big payoffs to retire.[/quote]
Yeah that’s not good.
In terms of scale though (amount of land) it’s still USA cattle farms that are bigger problem

@JassyRadlett, no I am aware of pork and chicken, but unfortunately until people go for higher welfare meat not much can be done, intensive farming was brought in after WW1 to stop people from starving to death and it unfortunately had a purpose then. The UK is far ahead of other countries when it comes to Agricultural emissions. And I think that until countries like the USA and China change their way of doing things what we do here in the UK is just a drop in the ocean

And I think that until countries like the USA and China change their way of doing things what we do here in the UK is just a drop in the ocean.

I’m sure this has already been pointed out earlier on the thread, but the problem with focusing on China as the greatest producer of emissions is that one of the reasons for that is because they make so much of the stuff the entire world wants to buy. So people in the UK (and other wealthy countries) changing our ways of doing things would be more than a drop in the ocean in reducing emissions, overall.

[quote Monsteres]@JassyRadlett, no I am aware of pork and chicken, but unfortunately until people go for higher welfare meat not much can be done, intensive farming was brought in after WW1 to stop people from starving to death and it unfortunately had a purpose then. The UK is far ahead of other countries when it comes to Agricultural emissions. And I think that until countries like the USA and China change their way of doing things what we do here in the UK is just a drop in the ocean[/quote]
Totally disagree with you there. There is lots that can be done - perhaps not by individual consumers but the supply chains absolutely can and must get deforestation and conversion out of their supply chains. We need to be honest about the true footprint of UK agriculture, including feed imports.

And honestly, we’re all probably going to need to reduce the amount of animal products we consume, regardless of where they come from. Part of that will be due to more expensive meat because the most carbon-heavy production (often the cheapest) is removed - such as the £5 chicken that is 90% Cerrado soy.

This should actually be a relative benefit to systems like the U.K. where much of the meat we produce is lower in emissions than the meat we import, but those emissions are still problematic even if they’re lower than other places. But ultimately there is a lot of land globally dedicated to growing protein for animals; the emissions reduction (including LUC) of that land instead growing protein or other crops for humans rather than animals is really significant.

For the UK, it’s 10% of our production emissions. We do need to sort out our own sector, no matter how much we feel others are worse.

So in the UK the move from pigs kept in fields to being kept inside is awful and should be banned.

@Justheretoaskaquestion91

Who on this thread has no SUV but 2 cars?!

That's a very specific question. We have a pickup truck and 2 cars. Should we be summarily executed? :-)

The pickup is not used regularly - it's just an old spare we have for managing the acre of woodland we have, doing dump runs, home construction, etc. My neighbour borrows it pretty regularly. It probably does about 2000 miles per year.

The 2 cars are shared by 5 drivers.

People have them because they can. Until big charges are imposed on them they will continue. I don't get it either. It is partly a status thing I guess.

@thelegohooverer

I think if people focused their righteous anger at the multi billion dollar industries behind those consumer choices, instead of at individuals we might affect real change.

But instead environmentalism is the new religion, and like all religions the purpose is to feel sanctimonious and look down on others.

In fact, the rhetoric of this new religion is as worrying as Isis, the Spanish Inquisition and witch hunting. We’re constantly hearing about over population which undermines the sanctity of life and is a short step from promoting genocide in some form.

Fair point

[quote Monsteres]@GaryLurcher19 wrong I'm afraid only 30% of soy is actually used for human consumption so that 70% of waste is what is fed to the cows. The majority of cattle feed is waste products that are either inedible for people or supermarkets deem not up to standard or wonky veg. Maybe you should try talking to people who work with cattle rather then reading a one sided view all the time?[/quote]
How on Earth does that make me wrong? You mean 70% (I think it may well be higher) of it is grown for animal feed! Is it grown in the UK or shipped/freighted in? That is the question relevant to my point...

Lol. You're wasted in farming, you should be selling used cars.

@Chasingaftermidnight

The thing I struggle to understand the most is wood-burning stoves. At least cars serve a purpose. People need them to get to word and school and go shopping. Wood-burning stoves serve no purpose in a house with central heating other than aesthetic value - making the user ‘feel cosy’ - and they cause triple the particle pollution of traffic in this country, despite only being used in a fairly small percentage of homes.

Oh dear, we have a wood stove too.

If it helps, we only burn wood that has fallen in our own woods around the house, so there are no transport costs. We only burn hardwood, and we season it for a year at least.

It's handy when we have power cuts, which happens pretty often round here. I've kept my house above freezing using it when it's been -20C outside.

I try to choose organic high welfare lamb. But only eat meat once a week. It’s expensive to eat high welfare chicken so I hardly ever buy it as I can’t bring myself to get even barn chickens.

Should we be stopping buying Chinese imports?

It’s such a complex Issue and as individuals we can only do so much by at least considering out choices.

I do agree with pp that being green does feel like a privilege. I just do what I can but I’m far from ideal.

@mewkins

People have them because they can. Until big charges are imposed on them they will continue. I don't get it either. It is partly a status thing I guess.

It's ironic when they are purchased as a status thing, given how many people judge rather than envy the owners!

[quote Monsteres]@GaryLurcher19 wrong I'm afraid only 30% of soy is actually used for human consumption so that 70% of waste is what is fed to the cows. The majority of cattle feed is waste products that are either inedible for people or supermarkets deem not up to standard or wonky veg. Maybe you should try talking to people who work with cattle rather then reading a one sided view all the time?[/quote]
This is a daft non-answer to the point about importing cattle feed for meat that you describe as 'local'.

The fact that such a large proportion of the world's soy crop - that we're deforesting the rainforsts to grow - is for livestock is shocking. Really inefficient.

Yes wood burning stoves should be banned.

Should we be stopping buying Chinese imports?

Again I think I’m a bit of a broken record but so much of this has to be on govt and businesses. If the markets for low carbon goods are created, production will meet it. But there’s no simple yes/no on whether imports from X country should stop.

There should 100% be due diligence for all importers that the supply chain of the products they import and sell are produced in line with U.K. standards. Deforestation is the most urgent but really it needs to be all supply chains and carbon.

I don’t think we’re far off border mechanisms for carbon - whether import taxes or standards for imports.

But the best thing any of us can do is as citizens and as employees and investors, where it’s relevant. Corporations like unilever are already taking concrete steps to clean up their supply chains, partly because of employee and shareholder activism.

Write to your MP, write to the chancellor, write to the PM and the governor of the Bank of England and the head of the FRC and the Trade Secretary. Demand better products to choose from.

I buy a lot of clothes, mostly from Zara. I really like clothes. I don't think my £250 a month shopping habit is going to be the reason the planet burns.

I don't think my £250 a month shopping habit is going to be the reason the planet burns.

No one’s individual action is, though, right?

My burger once a week or the kids’ sausages aren’t going to destroy the Great Barrier Reef either, it doesn’t mean they’re not part of the issue.

I drive a large petrol SUV but will absolutely switch to electric once manufacturers bring out a full-size electric SUV. Both Rivian and Bollinger look promising on that front. My husband is switching to an electric car in six months.

Meantime, we do some things—grow 80 percent of our vegetables; meat organic and local; solar panels; no fast fashion—but I’m an ex-pat, so long distance flights are an integral part of my life.

@FuckinGoddess

Once the mega rich who create a shitload of pollution (and lecture us little people about the environment) abandon their private jets, enormous mansions, long haul flights, football stadium size wardrobes, etc , I’ll consider following their example.

But like fuck am I doing the leg work for them , beyond recycling.

Well said. I find their hypocrisy baffling but most of the population don't seem to notice or call them out.

@JassyRadlett

I don't think my £250 a month shopping habit is going to be the reason the planet burns.

No one’s individual action is, though, right?

My burger once a week or the kids’ sausages aren’t going to destroy the Great Barrier Reef either, it doesn’t mean they’re not part of the issue.

This is the problem, too many people think that other people changing will make the difference, but that they themselves can carry on regardless.

I feel the same about people eating meat daily but people get pretty het up if you suggest they cease. A suggestion to serve only vegetarian food at complimentary work lunches (do not banning meat, just not providing it) was met with uproar

I drive an SUV. I live in a very snowy part of the world - overnight snowfalls of 12+ inches are common. We don’t get roads cleared, so we’re entirely self reliant to be able to get out. I wouldn’t drive one in the UK - I used public transport when I still lived there.

I do fly long haul, to see family. Haven’t flown short haul for years.

Don’t eat much meat, don’t shop much either. Seldom put the heating on, even in winter. Recycle as much as possible.

The big one though, is I don’t have children. So I feel that balances out the carbon footprint of an SUV.

@JassyRadlett Perhaps, but honestly if I didn't buy clothes we all know nothing would actually change. Space tourism, China and India's emissions, I just don't feel bad in comparison.