To think we’ve already f****d it up when it comes to the environment.

[MynameisWa]

Am I being unreasonable in thinking we’ve already passed the point of no return when it comes to the environment and that it’s just no one in power or in the know wants to be the one to admit it?

@Sprostongreen21 its not that some is us don’t want to reduce car usage it’s that we can’t, we live in a rural area, i work in community nursing covering that wide rural area and I don’t live near school/Doctors etc and I won’t be moving to more built up areas. I will change to electric or whatever is available when it becomes more affordable and I’m able to charge it without a driveway. Even if more buses were put on its the time it takes to get anywhere etc

@MynameisWa

Before now, our population has been reduced by war, famine, disease and maternal mortality. We solved those problems - now we need to solve the consequences of those outcomes

So well put.

That’s it exactly. Plus we prolong people’s lives well beyond the point where they have quality of life because we are all so afraid of death.

Trouble is the people who will die and suffer no more deserve to suffer and die than anyone else

There seems to be an undercurrent of why don't we just kill off old , The sick and poor people , it'll be better for me me me

I think that attitude makes you less human and more animal

@bordermidgebite

Exactly dragon That's where the government should be stepping up Yes it does mean that the richer may well have to pay more taxes

All countries need to sort out tax etc. All that will happen if the UK increases taxes is that even more rich people will relocate to low tax countries.

@orinocosfavoritecake

There’s a lot you can do that’s pretty painless. All of this is a morning’s work at worst: Change your bank account to triodos, change your gas and elec supplier to a green one (ecotricity’s prices held up pretty well). Write to your MP and ask them to ask a minister a question - asking Sunak why he cut tax on planes is a good one to go for. Ministers have to sign letters to MPs and what they sign they read and it really makes a difference.

Longer term get an electric car - no issues with fuel supplies and petrol/diesel cars are going to crater in value. Get insulation - saves money on bills and if your house is insulated you’ll have more options re: heating.

The tough one is flights.

Cutting down on flights needn't be tough for most of them. 1% of the population take 20% of flights. How many of the business flights could have been Zoom calls? How many short haul (or even medium haul) flights could have been train journeys? We could start by grounding Ursula von der Leyen.

Electric cars are not going to save the planet, they still consume a considerable amount of raw materials and energy to manufacture. Personal car ownership will need to become a thing of the past.

@DdraigGoch as I explained my situation regarding car use above how will giving up my car benefit me or my patients in any way? I will not be able give up my personal car or I will have to give up my job

As an environment professional l have spent the last 20 years encouraging behaviour change and working on reducing impacts in various industries.

We are fucked. In 200 years we will have gone backwards- very few cars, limited energy, areas reclaimed by the sea. I hope children don't bother having children tbh.

Until the people making the decisions are badly negatively affected nothing will change. It's lovely that 40 countries are going to end coal use but when that doesn't include the US, China, Australia or India what's the point? We're just delaying the point at which something will be done because the 'important' people are being affected IMO.

Changing everyone to electric is just another red herring IMO, just like saying everyone should get a diesel back in the day. The cars might all be more environmentally friendly but how is all this electricity being produced? If it's from nuclear then where are we going to put all the nuclear waste that needs to be stored for 100,000 years before it will be safe? There's nowhere to dispose of it at the moment from what I read in the FT, no one wants it and the surface containers it is in are starting to degrade. In the next 100 years we could produce 5.1 million tonnes of waste.

What we really need to be doing is looking at population, there are far too many people on this planet.

@bordermidgebite

Trouble is the people who will die and suffer no more deserve to suffer and die than anyone else

There seems to be an undercurrent of why don't we just kill off old , The sick and poor people , it'll be better for me me me

I think that attitude makes you less human and more animal

I definitely don't think we should just kill people off because they're old - we're all going to hopefully be old one day! But euthanasia should be available as freely as abortions are IMO. People should be able to say that if they get dementia that they want to be euthanised, I would choose that if the option was available. They should be able to choose euthanasia if they are in constant pain and there are no more treatment options or if they have a terminal condition or no quality or life. I think to be denied that option in inhumane personally. Obviously it is up to the individual but I think that option should be available and I don't know why people have such a problem with it, if they don't want it then that's is of course their choice but they shouldn't be allowed to take away the choice of others IMO.

[quote AlaskaThunderfuckHiiiiiiiii]@Sprostongreen21 its not that some is us don’t want to reduce car usage it’s that we can’t, we live in a rural area, i work in community nursing covering that wide rural area and I don’t live near school/Doctors etc and I won’t be moving to more built up areas. I will change to electric or whatever is available when it becomes more affordable and I’m able to charge it without a driveway. Even if more buses were put on its the time it takes to get anywhere etc[/quote]
I assume the plan is to make everyone live in as densely populated cities as possible to reduce travel, and to allow for stringent enforcement of the various eco policies.
Living rurally except for essential workers like farmers will no doubt be banned. I am glad I will (hopefully) be dead by then.

@daimbarsatemydogsbone I hope I will be too then, I don’t want to live in a highly populated place, I tried it it was hell

Also not sure how they’ll do that, there is barely enough room or houses for people who live there as it is

Yes, we’re fucked. The real issue is whether we want to carry in regardless and get utterly, civilisation-endingly fucked, Mad Max style, or take steps to mitigate, as far as possible, what’s coming.

I have more confidence than I should in human ingenuity and that when the shit true hits the fan we always come up with something (e.g. covid vaccine). However, the “it’ll be alright” approach isn’t a strategy.

@Suspiciousmind20

DdraigGoch

6 tonnes? That’s awesome! Well done. We are somewhere between 8 and 11 depending on the calculator. I haven’t settled on one yet. I think the UK average is 13?

I hadn’t thought about finance. I’ll look into that.

I think if we can get solar panels and ground source heat, that will take us down considerably. We are in a very cold and draughty rental waiting for a house purchase to go through at the moment so that’s a huge problem. Trying to get landlord to do something but...

@Suspiciousmind20 I'm using the www.carbonfootprint.com calculator if you are comparing. I've just looked at the WWF calculator and it comes out completely different (though still below the respective UK averages quoted on each site). I wonder what is different in their calculations, the first one seems more scientific than the WWF questionnaire, the latter didn't actually ask for any figures. Likewise www.carbonindependent.org used my actual meter readings.

You mentioned missing foreign holidays, I can really recommend using the train. Apart from the obvious Paris/Brussels/Amsterdam which are regularly served by Eurostar, Eurostar also (pre-pandemic, and hopefully again next year) operate a handful of direct services to Marseille and the French Alps so you can head straight for the south of France or go skiing without changing. Direct services to EuroDisney too.

If you don't mind a change or two, then the whole of Europe is open to you (though Bosnia is a bit difficult at present, I admit). You can get from London to Vienna in only 13 hours or even take the Nightjet and arrive well rested the next morning. All electric trains so very low emissions. www.seat61.com is the travel blogger I look at for no-fly advice.

@Suspiciousmind20

PlanDeRaccordement

Plus what do you think the animals are fed on? - massively contributing to deforestation.

70% of the diet of a British cow is grass, 17% silage, 5% grains, 2% beet, and 6% other byproducts. Statistics from DEFRA.

All of the efforts at supposedly tackling climate change focus on new technology, new products, each of which requires more resources. Sure there are efficiency gains to be made but if we're actually serious about it we need to look at consuming less. A lot less. Unfortunately, the capitalist model works on ever-increasing GDP, ie using more and more stuff, to sustain itself.
If everyone only used what they reasonably need, rather than everything they want, we could easily sort it. Sadly not many people would be up for that, especially those that have the most income they wish to enjoy spending - which includes the people making the decisions. Even a small reduction in consumption would make a significant difference, if it was across the globe. But for that to work, an alternative to capitalism would need to be introduced, to allow people to survive several decades of stagnant or negative GDP. There would need to be a sustained redistribution of wealth, domestically and globally, or some people would simply not have the necessities to survive. Currently, some already don't. So we can see that the mindset to do this is not easily embraced.
We would also need to look at the ever-growing population of the world. Again, this is highly tied into economics, whether at the level of the poor family who needs offspring to help feed the family, or tribe, or at the national level where governments intervene when populations are stagnant to encourage population growth or immigration.

[quote AlaskaThunderfuckHiiiiiiiii]@DdraigGoch as I explained my situation regarding car use above how will giving up my car benefit me or my patients in any way? I will not be able give up my personal car or I will have to give up my job[/quote]
I specifically said "personal car ownership" for a reason. Some people will still need a vehicle for work, therefore they would have a work car/van. No one is asking plumbers to carry their tools on the Number 11.

Every time someone mentions car ownership on one of these threads, someone pipes up to say that they live in Brae of Achnahaird and couldn't possibly manage without a car. 80% of the UK population is urban, most of them wouldn't starve if they lost their licence tomorrow, they'd manage some other way. Like the rest of us do.

Also there needs perhaps to be a bigger rethinking of society to help

People need more time to do things slower , walk or bus not drive , so that's being able to raise a family without both parents working 40+ hrs a week

People need things close... so decent stores within walking distance not out of town mega centres

It's not really hard , just a little different

People who genuinely need a vehicle for their job will increasingly have a vehicle provided by their employer. It’s what I now have and it’s fine. I don’t own a personal car or van, just a bike. I use public transport for personal trips that are too far or impractical to cycle or walk, or occasionally if I really need a car I hire one. There’s also a car club where I live.

Shocked at my carbon footprint, I did just guess at lots of the figures as hard to work out. House is definitely the worse, we have oil heating, live rurally, can't swap to anything better. I would never buy the cottage we are in now if I was buying today, been here 25 years though. Would love a little eco friendly place that generates its own energy etc. Feeling glum...

[quote happytoday73]@hollyhead totally agree.. My 6th form chemistry text book was dated 1973 and went into lots of detail about emissions and the effect climate change would have on the environment and concerns about water pollution[/quote]
Plant a tree in '73
Plant one more in '74

@Squeezita

I read that the planet will survive, it’s just humans that will disappear off the face of the earth.

Good riddance.

This is the most hateful and terrible thing I have ever read.

@TreborBore

People who genuinely need a vehicle for their job will increasingly have a vehicle provided by their employer. It’s what I now have and it’s fine. I don’t own a personal car or van, just a bike. I use public transport for personal trips that are too far or impractical to cycle or walk, or occasionally if I really need a car I hire one. There’s also a car club where I live.

I work for a home care company, we get issued with one uniform top any more you need to buy. We don’t get paid for meetings, we don’t get paid for training, and you think we will be provided with cars?

@bebanjo exactly, there’s hardly any staff, not enough money to pay carers a decent wage, we have 1 pool car between 7 of us, highly doubt they’ll supply us with cars. Still doesn’t solve the problem of needing a car to get anywhere else

@DdraigGoch and that’s fair enough but I highly doubt the nhs is going to supply every staff nurse with a car, there is currently 1 between 6-7 of us which is only used by the person doing the furthest run. Yes urban people or city people could probably do without their car but rural people shouldn’t be forced to give up their car especially if moving to electric etc