To think we’ve already f****d it up when it comes to the environment.

[MynameisWa]

Am I being unreasonable in thinking we’ve already passed the point of no return when it comes to the environment and that it’s just no one in power or in the know wants to be the one to admit it?

I don't know but that's no reason to not try to prevent it getting worse though.

In the meantime they will tax us to death on the account of the environment.

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@Squeezita

Yes, so what? Just move away from the coasts as humans have done for thousands of years. The ancient capital, of Egypt has been at the bottom of the sea for a thousand years. What did the people of Alexandria do? They moved. More people die of the cold than due to heat globally. So far, the warmth has saved more lives than it has taken.

I’m not saying it isn’t bad, it’s just not so bad that we are all going to die in the next fifty years or whatever.[/quote]
800 million people live in coastal cities vulnerable to sea level rise, and that number is rising all the time. They will have to go somewhere and that will have hugely destabilising effects. Not to mention all the trade and economic activities that take place along the coast, losing that will collapse many countries' economies.

There's being hopeful, and then there's being so blase about catastrophic change that you sound clueless.

I think you might find that taxes are mostly used for things like Heath and social care, roads, propping up the airline industry than environment

However if costs matter to you all the evidence suggests that the longer you delay acting the more it costs you to fix

These are the sort of costs that go up steeply with global warming

flood defences
roads and rail repairs
health and social care costs
Food and water
War

It's like fixing the hole in your roof - do it now or the roof collapses taking the first floor of your house with it... much more expensive long term

@Squeezita

No, what’s sickening is the propensity to keep our heads buried in the sand. Unless we act fast, it’s bye bye to humans and I think that the rest of the species on earth would welcome that.

But if we're a cancer, what's the problem?

Also, extinct stuff doesn't give a shit that it's extinct, because it's extinct.

@HarrietsChariot

We need drastic population control, now. This means limiting the number of children people have to one per person (i.e. a father can have one child with one woman and vice-versa).

Nope, it’s too slow. It won’t deliver the fossil fuel reductions that cause 89% of global heating in the right timeframe, which is within the next 5-10 years. Population control would also have to be enacted in developed countries to have a worthwhile impact as it is these citizens that have the high carbon footprints.

PlanDeRaccordement

I haven’t denied any information from climate scientists at all. I am denying the appropriate interpretation of or reaction to that information is to say “we are fucked, there is no hope, we are all going to die”.

Yes you did. You denied the impact of consuming and boiled it down to dealing with waste. Which is plain wrong.

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@TheABC
Great post, just nit picking a bit on Would it have been better if we started 20 years ago?

Green movement has been around since the 1950s...so that started 70yrs ago. Some say even further back as the thinking/concepts the Green movement adopted were from the mid 19th century, or 170yrs ago.[/quote]
@PlanDeRaccordement

No argument there, from me. I plucked the "20 years ago" example as something people often say when criticising climate progress - "we should have done it then."

Better late than never!

@Suspiciousmind20

It’s actually not that hard. Lots of reduction in carbon requires doing nothing:

Don’t book a holiday that requires a flight.
Don’t buy as much meat and dairy.
Don’t buy so much stuff.

Obviously it will need more than just that but if all households in the richer nations did that it would make a big difference. It’s all about degrees.

I’m aiming for the 5tonne carbon lifestyle. Some things have been harder than others. The times I yearn to hop on a plane and lie by a pool somewhere- but it’s not a ‘need’ and it’s not my right. It’s unnecessary and my responsibility to future generations and those at risk right now is way greater than my desire for a lie down in the sun. It’s a loss for sure but I want to look my DC in the eye and say ‘I did what I could’.

You missed:-

Don't have so many children

If the children don't do anything they won't have a impact

Yes sterilising everyone in America & Europe would have a big impact , as would killing them all. But it seems more sensible to find less severe ways to fix the problem

Even if you had no children , you still have your own impact to consider

user1497207191

Good point.

It's not a case of reversing anything. It's just dragging out the remaining resources until the point where the earth ceases to be habitable for humans. Any changes will affect kids now as adults, large areas are already tipping into uninhabitable

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@bbgxd
this population size globally is not sustainable with the amount we consume

Consume of what? There is enough, air, water, food, land to live on. Consumption is not the problem, the problem is waste products and the fact we need to continue to improve in reducing and treating waste so that it doesn’t poison the environment.

You lot remind me of Malthus 200yrs age he said the population was not sustainable that we’d have famine and wars over food, collapse of civilisation, and he was wrong, wrong, wrong.[/quote]
No, dealing with waste is dealing with the symptoms, not the cause., and of course transport and processing of waste causes emissions etc!

The real answer is to reduce consumption in the first place and reduce emissions/waste within the production/manufacturing processes. So less "stuff" is used and less emissions are caused by the production and transport of that "stuff".

So, we need to reduce the amount of crap we buy and consume (i.e. disposable fashion, plastic tat, etc)., we need to reduce travel, we need to reduce population, etc. That's things we can all do ourselves rather than pretend to be making a difference by putting all our excesses in the "right" recycling bins to make us feel good, when we needn't have bought most of it in the first place!

@bebanjo and @cobalt

Interesting points about the rare earth mineral impact for batteries. There's currently two projects under way in Cornwall to see if we can extract lithium in the UK, using green methods. Cobalt's been mentioned too

www.nationalgeographic.co.uk/science-and-technology/2021/05/in-cornwall-ruinous-tin-mines-are-yielding-battery-grade-lithium-heres-what-that-could-mean

@BashfulClam

Once humans die out the earth will heal. We are massive selfish parasites.

Every living thing on the earth is a 'parasite'. Does the Earth even care? No.

"Have a read of this article
Stop Telling Kids They’ll Die From Climate Change
Many young people feel like their future is in peril. To make progress on climate change, we must move past doomsday scenarios.
www.wired.co.uk/article/climate-crisis-doom"

Thank you for posting this. In no way do I wish to undermine the severity of the climate crisis, but the 'we're all fucked" rhetoric and suggestions that we'll all be extinct in 50 years are dangerous, unhealthy and counterproductive.

The "number of children" debate is a bit of a red herring. As other posters have pointed out, global fertility rates have nose dived in recent years. It's hovering around the 2.4 mark at the moment, compared to 7 children per children in pre-industrial times. Over 40 countries are now running below-replacement fertility rates, including China, Russia, USA, everyone in the EU (and UK) and most of South-East Asia. We are not in the middle of a baby boom; it's a baby bust.

The reason why our total population is still rising is due to longevity; more people are surviving to old age. I don't know about you, but I am not keen on killing off everyone once they pass their XYZ birthday!

Likewise, consumption will continue in some format as we need to eat, seek shelter and cloth ourselves. How we manage that process is the key thing.

I don't think humans are a parasite. We are animals - clever animals that has pushed the carrying capacity of our habit well beyond its normal breaking point. Before now, our population has been reduced by war, famine, disease and maternal mortality. We solved those problems - now we need to solve the consequences of those outcomes. The irony is, if we were less smart, the "natural consequences" law would have kicked in long ago to kill us off and we would not be having this debate today!

*7 children per woman. ^^

I need an autocorrect button!

The planet will thrive once humans are killed off. It will bounce back.

I agree that humanity is selfish and so many people/governments/business aren’t taking enough action and it’s too late to stop. People don’t want to stop flying to meetings even though the pandemic has shown it can be done online. People don’t want to reduce their car usage, have less children, go on less holidays, use less heating… I read in a heating thread that someone was heating their house really high and walking around in t shirts because they could.

It’s not to late to lessen the impact but in my opinion so many don’t want to change their behaviours. I can do what I can and I do but if the worst offending countries and business don’t take action. What I do is pointless.

I don’t have children but I work with them, I have young relatives and godchildren whose world is going to be awful because of the generations before them lack of effort. I think a lot turn a blind eye because maybe they don’t believe in it or maybe it’s just easier to pretend it’s not going to happen as the worst won’t affect them.

Yep far too late. You need drastic changes which people won't agree to because they are too selfish.

I don't want children because of it. Don't trust those in charge to actually do what it takes to start slowing down the changes coming are way. There's no good future for kids.

I'd give stuff up if someone in charge actually demanded it. It's just not going to happen.

Longer term get an electric car - no issues with fuel supplies and petrol/diesel cars are going to crater in value. Get insulation - saves money on bills and if your house is insulated you’ll have more options re: heating.

The tough one is flights.

The tough thing is people having the money to make the changes needed. I don't fly anywhere, so that's easy. But I do need to replace the double glazing in my house, most of it is blown and it's aluminium framed so it's not keeping warmth in - can't afford to. Boiler is ancient, can't afford to replace it with a combi, let alone anything like a heat pump.

Exactly dragon
That's where the government should be stepping up
Yes it does mean that the richer may well have to pay more taxes

Before now, our population has been reduced by war, famine, disease and maternal mortality. We solved those problems - now we need to solve the consequences of those outcomes

So well put.

Humans are so arrogant..we think we are the most intelligent apecies but no other species destroys earth's habitat to this extent....go figure. Our demise will be survival of the fittest in action and the fittest aint us!

Species*