AIBU to think that team should be available at 9am for meetings?

[Overthebow]

I set up a weekly client meeting for my project team at 9am. I have had a decline from a key team member as it clashes with school drop of time. AIBU to think that 9am is a standard working time and my team should be available to attend important client calls at this time, unless they have a formal working hours agreement in place?

Am shocked at yabu comments.

@NotMyCat

My work once asked us to be in at 7.30am for a meeting (we don't usually have meetings) The person holding the meeting didn't turn up. There were a LOT of irritated people that day!

And rightly so!

I think a key point is that you say this team member is essential to the meeting.

In that case, particularly with it being a regular meeting, you need to work with her to find a time that works for her as well as the rest of the team.

Scheduling it at a time that doesn’t work for her, without consulting her, when she is essential to the meeting … it’s a dick move and implies that you are just trying to create drama.

@Osrie luckily we start at 8am anyway but yeah, nobody was best impressed
We can't have a meeting with every staff member (as the phones would be not manned) so we either have to do them before/after work or in groups. But we probably only have one every 6 months or so

Little Jim Bob or whatever her kid’s name is will just have to go to school breakfast club that day. I work in a very laid back industry but if a client arranges a meeting then you just need to be there at that time, no excuses.

‘Little Jim Bob or whatever her kid’s name is will just have to go to school breakfast club that day. I work in a very laid back industry but if a client arranges a meeting then you just need to be there at that time, no excuses.’

In my experience of using a mixture both school Breakfast Clubs & Afterschool Clubs over the last 20 years, these childcare options tend to have waiting lists, so this is not a simple option for every working parent. You can’t just book an ad hoc session whenever you feel like it.

What would a single parent do with no support or contact from their child’s other parent and with no extended family available or close enough to take Little Jim Bob to school that morning?

God, threads like these make me even happier to be self employed.

Meetings were the bane of my corporate life. If 8 of you are in an hour long meeting, that's an entire working day in pay/cost and time lost. If, as a couple of my previous employers were fond of doing, you get several teams or a bigger team together, and there are 20-odd people in a 90 minute meeting, that's a whole working week of hours lost to a meeting. Where fuck all ever gets decided, done or achieved except in very occasional circumstances. I don't understand why so many companies are so obsessed with them still - in my last job, a 37.5 hour contracted working week, I had between 18-23 hours of meetings to attend every fucking week. Everyone did, and no one had enough time to actually do any work between the meetings!

I guess if you're the line/team manager, it comes down to whether you value your team and their morale. No decent client is going to sever a contract over a 15-30 minute time shift to a weekly meeting.

Lots of schools still aren't providing proper wrap around care because of covid. What do you expect them to do? Do you pay them enough to have a nanny? If not, can't you start your meeting at 9.15?

Well said @hilariousnamehere

I'm newly self employed and the lack of meetings except one-to-one discussions about real projects that are happening is such a blessed relief

YANBU, especially if the client has requested this timing.

@YukoandHiro best decision ever! Lol reading that back I apparently still carry some issues from my old day jobs wouldn't ever go back now - and yes, meetings are a joy when they're focused and useful, with the right people and at halfway decent times. Good luck with your journey, I hope you also never look back x

@Overthebow

To answer some questions, we don't have official core hours. The company is reasonably flexible but 9am has always been considered a standard working time and 9am meetings are not unusual.

The meeting is with a client in another time zone, and they have set the meeting time. It is not negotiable, especially as team member are from many countries so trying to find a suitable time to accommodate lots of different time zones is tricky. Starting later would mean someone else has to finish work late.

If this makes a difference we are all employed and are reasonably well-paid, well above the average UK wage.

So compromise. Speak to the client and the other international teams and request 30 mins pushback.

I've worked in environments like this with multinational teams for much of my career, these things are always negotiable and if the team member is important enough that they are needed on this call then it needs to be at a time when they can attend, and not be flustered having had to rush to get there, as that won't reflect well on any of you.

@Overthebow

We also have lots of team members with reduced hour contracts and official working hour agreements in place. It is already hard enough to fit in all the necessary meetings around these, but would be impossible to have to accommodate the unofficial working patterns too.

It isn't impossible. Plenty of organisations do it. From the way you're speaking I am guessing it's professional services?

@logsonlogsoff

OP if you have people in different agreements then perhaps you need to start looking at core hours of 10-4pm for meetings and let your clients know this.

Yep.

I agree. Formal arrangements should be catered for. Informal "I'm going to rock up 15 minutes late because of x y and z" no.

Companies/ firms that provide more flexibility so that their employees have more autonomy and feel respected have better staff retention and make more profit. The days of the control freak overlords are coming to an end, thankfully.

9am can easily be 9:15 without huge disruption to others in a different time zone.
Its 15 minutes and to a meeting changes nothing but to a parent juggling full time work and children it means a great deal.
As a manger 15 minutes is neither here or there (unless we are brain surgeons or air traffic control) as long as my good staff member can attend.
I value my staffs skills not just15 minutes of their time.

@FigureofEight

FFS this shite winds me up.

I have teams. They change frequently. We work collaboratively and respect each other's work life set up. Particularly whilst WFH. this is my internal team and clients.

I respect my team as people and I get much better outcomes if I am flexible with them. They are then more likely to be flexible with me when I need it.

Clients are generally humans and also in family situations and get it. They don't get to cal all the shots hues because they are clients. We are a joint team.
If the meeting time is non negotiable- we get by without that person until they join. Say 9.10 for a 9am meeting because they are doing a school run.

The shit you talk about is why people are stressed feel under valued and ultimately leave organisations.

Totally agree with this!!

@PumpkinSpiceGirl

I’m amazed at all this flexibility around school runs, how the hell did anyone cope when they were in the office every day? It’s hard enough managing a team with all their different hours and requirements without having to take into account their kids as well. I think sometimes flexibility can swing so far the other way that it’s not really practical for the needs of the business.

Sorry but this is utter rubbish if you work in most service industries. It is perfectly possible to accomodate everyone's need (staff and clients) and the teams are more productive as a result. In many industries there has been flexible working and flexible hours and home working etc working very efficiently for many years pre-Covid. It's depressing that some people still haven't caught up.

@Hercisback

Good job none of you who need "time to warm up" work in a school. We're well into the swing by 9am.

But presumably you don't arrive at 9am? Because you can also leave much earlier as your "core hours" end much earlier than in many office roles. Then there's the 13 weeks per year of annual leave. What a silly comparison.

@Lindtnotlint

I am in the “eyes opened” group. Genuinely amazed so many people think a 9am call is unreasonable.

Just massively unproductive and pointless, really.

I’ve got school drop off and pickup blocked off in my calendar in Outlook. I have had people not bother checking and try to schedule meetings. Even if they are senior to me, They get a decline and a reminder that I keep my calendar up to date for just this reason. If they had bothered to use the scheduling assistant, they would have seen that someone had a conflict.

I also make it clear that if a one-off critical meeting just has to happen during the school run, as long as I have some notice, I will find a way to make it work.

I want to know what all these jobs are!

And how to retrain to get one ;)

[quote CallmeHendricks]@Postitmug unpaid holidays, remember. [/quote]
Hahhaaa that old myth. Everyone's pay is calculated as an annual amount with the understanding that they won't work during annual leave with salary payments annualised.

It's hard to tell who is being unreasonable based on the limited information.

Is it just one person who can't make the meeting on time or several?
What are their excuses?
Are the excuses unreasonable, such as I like to walk my dog or I just can't be bothered?
Or are they reasonable, such as I have to do a school drop-off but can start at 9.10am instead?

I think once you have a full picture of the situation, then you decide whether it's a case of, sorry you need to get up a little earlier to walk your dog, or I understand your situation is difficult, so will ask the client if they can start at 9.15am instead or you can join join us slightly later and you can watch that part of the meeting back later.