AIBU to think that team should be available at 9am for meetings?

[Overthebow]

I set up a weekly client meeting for my project team at 9am. I have had a decline from a key team member as it clashes with school drop of time. AIBU to think that 9am is a standard working time and my team should be available to attend important client calls at this time, unless they have a formal working hours agreement in place?

Would your colleague be lucky enough to drop her child at school if you were all back in the office, or would she have to leave home a lot earlier to get into work for 9am?

I feel like this attitude is where it has all been going wrong for years. It shouldn't be 'luck' to be able to drop kids off at the appropriate time. Will the working world end if folks aren't logged on until 0915? No, of course not.

We're just all so trained in the 'clock on clock off' idea that if you're in 9-5 you're working productively 9-5 and everything else in life (caring, kids, medical appointments, etc) comes second to this, that we're making life harder than it needs to be.

Nobody is fully productive for 8 straight hours, so why not be flexible and remove stresses so people have a chance to work at the times when they are more productive?

My DC have only been in school since the pandemic started, but I start work at 0600 (usually, today my broadband is down 🙄), sort the kids when they get up then start again after the morning school run. And it's fine, for the team and for me. Another colleague does different hours on a Tuesday so they can help a friend, that also is fine.

I do wonder if there's a perception that anyone not doing 9-5 is doing 'less' or getting special treatment? In reality they're not but I guess some people don't like change/feel mistrust of difference.

I’m not asking people to be at the office for the meeting. I couldn’t care less where they dial in from, but do expect them to be available at 9am for it.

So what’s your AIBU if this is your firm belief? The reality is, you may get people there but the vast majority will be sitting seething and cursing you.

I also struggle with multiple timelines for meetings and will happily do 6am, 7am or 7pm onwards but once you start putting meetings from 8am-9am or starting on 9am, or from 4pm-5pm or even 5pm-6pm it’s just inconvenient all round and everyone in attendance will spend the whole time focused on the dick move the person who set it up made, rather than the issue at hand. If that floats your boat, knock yourself out I guess.

I'm stunned people think 9am is unreasonable. Of course it depends on what was in place pre covid but I would expect 9am to work fine. If the employee has to sort out child care one morning a week that's fine. Perhaps there's a second parent in the family who could rise to the challenge, or a local childminder or friend who could take the child from 8.30.

*multiple timezones

Surely when people start a job they know they might need to have some childcare in place?

Last office environment I worked in the hours were 0700 to 1600, most meetings were scheduled for 0715-0730.

I'm surprised reading this. I'd have thought 9am was an acceptable meeting time in a, presumably, business context.

Pre covid our weekly staff meetings were 8.20am. Pretty common for school staff. Would just get on with it. It’s not every day.

All this thread does is remind me how I'm so glad I got out of the office environment.

All staff meetings when I taught in school or FE started at 08:30. School and College staff (many with small children) seemed to cope fine. Colleagues would typically be in between 08:00 and 08:30, though some arrived earlier, from when the buildings opened at 07:30.

Working across time zones is different to working in a wholly UKbased setting.

I’m in professional services. A 9 am meeting set by the client, designed to accommodate multiple timezones, would be considered entirely reasonable.

We have staff briefing at 8.30. These days with virtual meetings there's no travel involved 9.00 sounds reasonable to me.

Think I'm in the wrong job where people seem to be able to faff around for half an hour on work time 🤷🏼‍♀️

Listen to your colleague’s issues. See if you can come up with a solution with her that will not involve others staying late. Then offer your suggestion to client.

It might be that someone cannot make it to the meeting - but companies can operate without 1 person there - that’s why they have teams.

Really it depends what type of ethos your company has. 9am is still common, but it makes things difficult for working parents, usually women, and it will make your organisation less attractive as a workplace, unless it is attractive in other ways.

Personally I would think my boss a dickhead for arranging at 9am, unless my contract and historical practice required it.

I agree the op sounds like a difficult/poor manager if they don't consult/consider key team members before setting up a weekly ongoing appointment.

@TheEvilPea you are quite literally wrong about that one, and I'm guessing you have never read a teacher's contract.
I wouldn't claim such firm knowledge of something I'd no experience of in case it showed my ignorance, but that's just me...

You have a very lazy team. Many businesses have meeting before 9 am if they need to be in front of clients/customers then.

Lots of schools have stopped providing wrap around care. So for that reason I'd be inclined to move the meeting to 930. Its more important to me that everyone attends, rather than making a point to.punish working mums. Flexibility is good.

It's quite shocking to read the number of people who are inflexible to this. Are you always so difficult to work with? Do you out work above everything else in your life?

I work for a large organisation where flexible working is standard (I don't know anyone who works 9-5). There are daily 9/910 stand ups which I attend but 1-2 days a week I don't because I'm on school drop off. I usually start work 7am for a bit and pop my update in Teams (we work in agile). I have back to back meetings usually from 930 until 1230 and 2 until 430 (company enforces 1230-2 meeting free time). And use time outside this/evening to do creative aspects of role in peace. Role is mad busy but enjoy it and work hard.

Really sad to read the OP and subsequent comments. The OP's attitude would be considered discrimination where I work and it's good reminder that people still subscribe to this way of thinking and counting my blessings I don't work with people like this anymore. Sounds like a nightmare colleague who probably clocks in and out for 1 hour lunch breaks 🤢

When we started WFH we used to have a team call at 9am every day but ended up pushing it later on a couple of days to accommodate school drop offs once the schools went back. To be fair the person involved* had a pre-existing Flexi arrangement for that reason and only arrived in the office at 10am on those days previously, but I personally preferred the earlier time as there never felt like enough time to get stuck into anything else between 9 and 9.30 and my preference was to get the call done first thing then get on with the day.

*A man, as it happens.

@Valeriekat

You have a very lazy team. Many businesses have meeting before 9 am if they need to be in front of clients/customers then.

The use of the word 'lazy' here is so outdated, and suggests limited experience in the current workplace.

Flexible working works both ways. It's not just for the benefit of the employees.

The term flexible is viewed as "if it's convenient for me I'll do it if it isn't I don't see why I should" by a lot of employees sadly.

There has to be give and take in everything. If it's one meeting a week to accommodate the client and there is plenty of notice then it's reasonable for employees to make themselves available.

It's up to the employees to explain the situation but also realize that if they are unwilling or can't be flexible it may lead to them being removed from projects or are given a lesser role.

There's a record number of jobs available at the moment. Don't like what the employer is offering and asking then the employee needs to look for something else that fits in with their chosen lifestyle.

@MiddleParking

Everyone thinks you’re a dickhead for putting in a weekly 9am call, just so you know.

There's a record number of jobs available at the moment. Don't like what the employer is offering and asking then the employee needs to look for something else that fits in with their chosen lifestyle. Agree with this and it is why sensible companies are being as accomodating as possible to limit the numbers wanting to leave, as that is more disruptive than moving a meeting by 15 mins!

I feel your pain, OP, i regularly had to get up really early or stay really late having had to coordinate meetings between people in Mexico, China and Europe. Sometimes you have to suck it up.

If the client has picked the meeting time, your team should all be making it happen. If they are a core part of the project they should understand that. However - is it possible for the client to move it?

Failing that, of course, nobody is indespensable, can you move this person to another team and get someone else in who understands where their salary comes from?

Don’t be a knob. How are you meant to get the kids to school for 8;45 and Be in a meeting for 9am? For the sake of pushing it back this kid won’t have to go breakfast club saving that family money.