"I'm Irish American"

[MacMahon]

I've noticed that to many Americans their Irish, Scots, Italian etc. roots are a big part of their current identity. As a nation of immigrants in a New World I can see why this link to earlier generations is interesting and important.

But it's also something I find confusing.

I live in Yorkshire. I'm English. I have Irish ancestors on both side (great grandparents and great x2 grandparents). If I was in America this would quite possibly be a big deal. I'd be an Irish American and identify with the struggles and persecution that my people suffered at the hands of the English. But I wasn't born in America, I was born in Leeds, and my Irish ancestry play zero role in my identity.

I'm on an ancestry group and Americans are getting that DNA test done and finding out that, contrary to family lore that they are Cherokee or Mexican or Italian Americans, they're actually pretty much 'just' 100% British.

It makes me wonder how authentic this celebrating or identifying with their Irish/First Nations/Italian roots is, and how much is just (mistaken) tribalism and division.

@ReginaSpaghetti99

For some people how they identify is more than where they were born/live. My Mum and Dad are both Irish (Dad born there, Mum not but was an Irish passport holder through Irish born parents). I was born here and have always described myself as half Irish. Being raised in an Irish house as it were, I’ve never really connected with the English side, and post Brexit I feel even less connected. That’s not to say that I don’t want to live here; I can’t imagine living anywhere else, but my identity is more Irish than English I guess. I think there’s a lot to be said for cultural identity and the cultural background you have been raised in which is passed down. I’ve always found it amusing that my Indian friends are never questioned when they describe themselves as Indian (due to India born parents), but if I said I was outright Irish, I’d be called a plastic paddy. Due to my heritage I am an automatic Irish citizen too.

This is very true for the Irish community I think.

Kids who were brought up in London, Coventry/Birmingham etc as kids of Irish immigrant parents were totally steeped in Irish communities. Catholic schools where everyone else was Irish (or Italian or Polish), extra curricular activities of GAA, Irish dancing, music. A lot of people never really met that many 'English' people in their childhoods, and many people went on to marry other Irish/Irish descent people living in England as well.

There is strong prejudice against Tall Poppies and 'different' in general.

'Tall Poppies' is an Australian term, not British.

@bonzo77

Because their ancestors fled their homes and everything they knew. To escape poverty, persecution and famine. To make a better life for themselves and their descendants. In a place that was often lawless and dangerous. They shaped a new country, a now very powerful one. They are rightly proud. Irish. Italian. Jewish. Persian. Afgani. They didn’t assimilate and disappear. They kept their identity whilst being proudly American. Good.

Thank you! As a New Yorker I hate these threads. The ignorance of US culture is amazing.

If you are English, living in England, you have the fortune of belonging to the dominant identity group that's ruled your country (and many others) for centuries.

Sneering at Americans descended from refugees and exiles, people fleeing famine and poverty and oppression, because they choose to hang onto those diaspora cultural connections -- I mean really?

It has nothing to do with you and you'll never understand it, so maybe just let it go.

I used to live in US and have to say I found it quite charming when people explained their heritage in this way.

I also had many people tell me their heritage was English, probably more so than Irish, but I wasn't on the East Coast.

It was a gal from Manchester (ish, Oop North I guess) who first told me about Tall Poppy Syndrome. As an American, this was foreign concept indeed. Is anyone going to say it isn't repeat English habit to build up heros on pedestal and then knock them down hard? Witness Prince Harry.

I’ve never heard that specific phrase, although google tells me it’s Australian. I’m not sure it has any relevance to people’s identities though.

@dreamingbohemian and @bonzo77

Thank you for those posts. I hate the way this topic always goes on Mumsnet too.

Unless an American is Native American, really they should be something American, including British, Australian, etc. They’re people who see themselves as ‘American’ because they’re white and instead ask those who look Asian, Black, Latino, etc “where are you really from”.

I think your post also shows privilege.

If that's what I'd said, I agree, it would have shown privilege.

@Leavisite I would love to watch Jeremy Irons playing the fiddle, probably with his eyes closed, very serious.

I'm as Irish as Biden - although my GG Grandpa was orphaned in the Great famine, and eventually married my English GG Grandma, and pretended to be protestant.

I can see the romantic appeal, and also I can sympathise with the need for roots.

Having said that, a degree of self-awareness is always a good thing, and people trying too hard to Identify with a culture which isn't really theirs is always going to be a teensy bit toe-curling to me.

I love the archaic (to us) bits of culture that have remained current in the US, though. Stuff that's died out in Ireland/England/Scotland/Wales was clung to much more strongly by first-gen US immigrants & their descendants - understandably - and so some traditions/words that may have been otherwise lost have been preserved. It's pleasing.

@DirectionToPerfection

No. I mean his dna was presented to him as being 99% from the uk and ireland. Geez!

The post said 4% Swedish and 96% UK.

Ireland is a separate country.

I know. I live here!
😂

For such a small country, we are spread all over the world due to historical reasons and current economic reasons forcing our young to emigrate.

The same can be said for other diaspora. I think OP is missing the cultural dimension of identity partly because there isn’t an obvious racial difference as there is for instance with the Chinese diaspora. Would they be making similar comments about the American born Chinese for instance. Where actually being American (or British) born actually gives you status in China and the rest of the diaspora. I know people who proudly claim themselves ABC or BBC having moved to other parts of the diaspora.

I have a surname that is unusual in the U.K. but very common in the US because the majority of the family left the U.K. in one of the early ships to Boston. One is buried in the first graveyard there. We regularly get contact from Americans who share our name and there is a vast amount of genealogical research on the American branch of the family. They clearly acquired a sex drive in the New World that was not her by my ancestors here . I admire that thirst to acquire an identity rooted somewhere in a puritanical section in the arse end of the Home Counties! Ireland has so much more allure though…

Thevancestry kit was 123 and it gave him a figure for uk and ireland.

Then the only bit that was outside of that category was swedish.

Hope clear now.

My ex who was born in Dublin and lived there til he was 25 was questioned in USA once as to how Irish he actually was!!
He used to say America was full of people who were Irish or claimed to be Irish!

@junebirthdaygirl

I am lrish. My dsis lives in the States and has 3 dc. They are very involved in the lrish Community..play lrish sport etc while being totally American through the education system, friends etc. But they absolutely love lreland and feel so connected when they come on visits. They are fascinated by the family history , love talking to elderly relatives and totally identify as lrish. I have no idea what will happen as the next generation comes along but l would have a big problem with anyone denying they are lrish. Also due to our lrish history we relied on our people who had emigrated to the US to help us in our fight for freedom over the centuries so l think it was in our best interests to encourage people to hang on to their lrishness as long as possible. We are after all a tiny island hanging off Europe so having our diaspora throughout the world is a support for us on the lnternational stage. It can get annoying if their ancestors are way back but the lrish are inclined to stick together in the US so there is a strong identity.

I completely agree with this.

Also, they're not doing anyone any harm, so I don't see what there is to be offended or upset about ?!

I love the archaic (to us) bits of culture that have remained current in the US, though. Stuff that's died out in Ireland/England/Scotland/Wales was clung to much more strongly by first-gen US immigrants & their descendants - understandably - and so some traditions/words that may have been otherwise lost have been preserved. It's pleasing.

This sounds interesting! Can you give us an example of something maintained by first-generation immigrants that has died out over here?

I don't see what there is to be offended or upset about ?!

Bemused more likely. Possibly irritated. But not offended or upset by

The problem is that Irish Americans whilst they think they identify as being Irish often are really clueless about current Irish culture and border on being offensive.

Talking about car bomb cocktails, leprechauns, top of the morning to ye, collecting for terrorism. Ireland is a very liberal and progressive country in terms of gay rights, abortion and being diverse whereas Irish Americans often are very traditional and religiously oppressive.

So they can actually be very misguided in what they think it means to be Irish.

It’s easy to pick and chose the ‘nice bits’. So Irish Americans will think of it like a ‘ye olde land’, of singing and dancing simple folk... a bit like Scotland actually (do you have cars/ electricity/ running water). We are often seen like a bloody theme park - oh the shock when you say ‘yes I have seen a dishwasher, and why shouldn’t my teeth be straight?

Someone - a cousin - declares that they are Irish American when they have an Irish grandparent and 3 Iranian grandparents. But who in America is comfortable saying ‘I’m iranian’? It’s not so bad now but the embassy hostage situation is still mentioned.

I'm Irish and lived in Boston for years and don't recognise the Irish American community you describe at all @blubberyboo?

@dreamingbohemian and @SussannaRyan I speak as a descendant of refugees. They came to England best part of 200 years ago. I think Failing to seek to understand is one of the routes of everything that’s wrong in the world.

It looks as if the Biden line can be traced back to Southern England. But, as this BBC article says, it's neither cool nor vote-winning to have English heritage: www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57394351

@JacquelineCarlyle

I'm Irish and lived in Boston for years and don't recognise the Irish American community you describe at all *@blubberyboo*?

Ive got family out there and it’s like anywhere else - you get jackasses everywhere.

This sounds interesting! Can you give us an example of something maintained by first-generation immigrants that has died out over here?

Language.

www.bbc.com/culture/article/20180207-how-americans-preserved-british-english

But who in America is comfortable saying ‘I’m iranian’? It’s not so bad now but the embassy hostage situation is still mentioned.

Persian tends to be more used.

@IsleofRum

Or "African American".

It's fine for the initial immigrant and first generation a little. But in you are born and live in the country you should accept that country as home. Otherwise keep a little connection if you like, but not seriously.

FFS @IsleofRum - are you for real?

Those wicked, ungrateful second generation African Americans. Bigging it up with their refusal to accept kidnapping & slavery as home.

How very dare they, & their ancestors, take their oppression seriously?

I know - sometimes it’s just easier (oh where’s your camel? Did you arrive on a flying carpet? Where? Is that a real place?)

But who in America is comfortable saying ‘I’m iranian’ Anyone who has an iota of comprehension of the amazing Persian culture that has persisted in Iran over 2000 years? The culture that Rome could not conquer and Arab conquerors could not erase? I find it hard to believe that any Iranian is not proud of their heritage, certainly none that I have met.