"I'm Irish American"

[MacMahon]

I've noticed that to many Americans their Irish, Scots, Italian etc. roots are a big part of their current identity. As a nation of immigrants in a New World I can see why this link to earlier generations is interesting and important.

But it's also something I find confusing.

I live in Yorkshire. I'm English. I have Irish ancestors on both side (great grandparents and great x2 grandparents). If I was in America this would quite possibly be a big deal. I'd be an Irish American and identify with the struggles and persecution that my people suffered at the hands of the English. But I wasn't born in America, I was born in Leeds, and my Irish ancestry play zero role in my identity.

I'm on an ancestry group and Americans are getting that DNA test done and finding out that, contrary to family lore that they are Cherokee or Mexican or Italian Americans, they're actually pretty much 'just' 100% British.

It makes me wonder how authentic this celebrating or identifying with their Irish/First Nations/Italian roots is, and how much is just (mistaken) tribalism and division.

So much for "We must have no more hyphenated Americans"! (Teddy Roosevelt).

@BorderlineHappy

I'm Irish living in Ireland. They can call themselves whatever they like as long as they stop calling it St Patty's Day

St. Paddy's Day is even worse!

I can understand that it can be annoying when someone who is American born and bred but who's great great grandparents emigrated from Ireland refers to themselves as Irish. But they are not trying to pretend that they come from there themselves - they are saying that their heritage is Irish. There's a difference.

So what would they call someone born and bred in Ireland? How would they distinguish the difference between my family and theirs?

*But as mom says, "The Irish Americans are more Irish than the Irish." That is exactly what my Nana (who married the son of my Irish great grandmother) said about the crowd who met up in the Irish Club in our northern city, and I have heard the same said one of my parent’s Irish friends of the Irish crowd in another Irish Club in another Northern City. I also heard similar said of the crowds in the Polish, Latvian and Lithuanian clubs by parents of friends who were second generation of the wave of immigration who arrived after the Second World War.

It didn’t really come as much of a surprise when many of those same parents voted for Brexit to stop immigration of what they regarded as the the wrong sort of Eastern European’s.

There are always going to be tensions between identities inherited / claimed. Though in terms doing the rounds of those clubs as teens of different heritages we were mainly claiming the strong spirits and craic….. Sort of pick and mix ….. as much part of our social life growing up as Led Zep and David Bowie concerts…..

@Mynameismargot

I can understand that it can be annoying when someone who is American born and bred but who's great great grandparents emigrated from Ireland refers to themselves as Irish. But they are not trying to pretend that they come from there themselves - they are saying that their heritage is Irish. There's a difference.

So what would they call someone born and bred in Ireland? How would they distinguish the difference between my family and theirs?

It depends on the context. I don't think an American would say "I'm Irish" if he/she didn't think you already knew they were American.

I find it revealing that the English people who start these threads (and they regularly do) always focus on Irish-Americans. They'll throw in other ethnicities a bit but really it's the Irish-Americans they're annoyed with. Why? Who knows, it has nothing to do with English people.

If Irish people get annoyed with Irish-Americans, I will fully respect that. I don't see it that often though. It's the English getting annoyed by it. Saying 'Just call yourselves Americans', as if we're still your colony and we give a rat's ass what you think of our customs.

Something tells me that if millions of Americans were proudly calling themselves English-Americans and having Shakespeare parades and there was a fish and chips shop on every corner, English people would think that was grand. But no, Americans love the Irish. How annoying that must be.

St. Paddy's Day is even worse!

@Anonymous48 Why is it worse.
At least Paddy is a diminutive

Irish is Irish no matter where you end up. It's an Irish thing.

MynameisMargot Perhaps they would respect them for being Irish and having grown up in that culture? The Irish American identity is very different to the Irish identity in many ways as many have pointed out here, some supportive, some derogatory. Although there will be examples of arrogance and ignorance I am sure most Irish Americans recognise that. They have a history of a culture and lifestyle that was peculiar to the Irish immigrant experience of America, living in certain areas, concentrated in certain professions, defining a community and its mores. It was not great that so much money flowed to the IRA through NORAID with misguided motives but there was a unique cultural driver for that that was rooted within those American communities as much as by the Irish reality.

It didn’t really come as much of a surprise when many of those same parents voted for Brexit to stop immigration of what they regarded as the the wrong sort of Eastern European’s

The immigrants and off spring of immigrants can often be the first ones to pull the ladder up.

Something tells me that if millions of Americans were proudly calling themselves English-Americans and having Shakespeare parades and there was a fish and chips shop on every corner, English people would think that was grand. But no, Americans love the Irish. How annoying that must be. They do! I grew up with a steady stream of people peering over the garden wall and asking if they were in Bronte country yet and which way was “Heyworth” as well as proudly getting in touch to celebrate a common puritanical ancestor who lived in a very uninteresting Home Counties town. There are fish and chip shops and ye olde pubs and carve ties in US cities. The Pelican Jnn in Marin is one of the most atmospheric pubs I have ever sat in, more English than the English you might say! I have never found Americans to be choosy about which heritage they owned up to.

Some cultures are simply more distinctive and identifiable than others. England isn't one of them. Thousands of Americans of Scottish heritage descend on Scotland every year to claim their tartan and buy their kilts. Thousands of Canadian Scottish societies exist too.

There you go - a pretty full on marketing strategy exploiting the fact that Americans don’t give a rats ass about the English 😂 www.pelicaninn.com/

@Emilyontmoor yes it's true that a lot of Americans love England and English culture and dream of going to England. But I would say that doesn't translate into a big 'English-American' culture, within the US itself, except maybe in parts of New England? There may be some British pubs and restaurants but it really doesn't come close to what you see with other heritage ethnicities.

Stone I don’t particularly care for what England has become and I would claim Yorkshire, and European identity, not to mention the identity of someone who has lived in and studied Asia before being English for that reason. But to say England does not have a distinctive culture is rubbish! Dreaming highlighted some of our cultural highlights 😂

@Emilyontmoor I forgot to mention the Spice Girls, Downton and Bake Off : )

My American friends back home are obsessed with Bake Off!

@IsleofRum "But in you are born and live in the country you should accept that country as home."

I can't agree with this. If you are born in a country but your family originated from elsewhere then their culture won't have stopped the moment they stepped into a new country. In turn that means that you as the child/grandchildren of immigrants will be raised in a household where the traditions and culture of the motherland will take place. Do you seriously think that people arrive in a new country and just forget who they are and where they are from? In fact that identity only becomes stronger as to not forget who you are.

@StoneofDestiny

Some cultures are simply more distinctive and identifiable than others. England isn't one of them. Thousands of Americans of Scottish heritage descend on Scotland every year to claim their tartan and buy their kilts. Thousands of Canadian Scottish societies exist too.

Don’t be silly. Some cultures have more well-known elements certainly, but all countries have distinct cultural elements both at a national level and more regionally. Some share certain cultural things with other countries based on history, religion etc, but if you take the time to look you can find distinctive culture everywhere.

Dreamin Perhaps I am influenced by having lived in San Francisco which I know is known for being one of the most European of American cities and having all these very distant American relations admittedly still concentrated in New England but spread everywhere, they were infamous carpet baggers and there are islands and towns named after us all across America. I do understand the depth of Irish American culture in America and the way it has evolved but I also think you cannot dismiss the extent to which aspects of English culture do permeate American life. Yes we were imperialists who exploited the rest of the world to a shocking extent but that should not blind you to the rest of English culture. Most of the archive of our greatest writers sits in American, not British libraries.

@StoneofDestiny

Some cultures are simply more distinctive and identifiable than others. England isn't one of them. Thousands of Americans of Scottish heritage descend on Scotland every year to claim their tartan and buy their kilts. Thousands of Canadian Scottish societies exist too.

I'm not sure how tartan and kilts, which are rarely worn at all in contemporary Scotland and were never universally worn, constitute a 'distinctive culture'. If you want to take twee historical relics like that as evidence, then Morris dancing, bowling on the green, and afternoon tea mean the same thing for "English culture".

English culture, language and political systems have in fact been massively influential, way out of proportion to the size of the country.

I have read at least half of the thread before stepping in.

In my experience, just about no Australian identifies themselves as Irish-Australian, or Greek-Australian, or Italian-Australian.

They identify themselves as being Australian, from 'x' heritage.

That's a bit different.

I'm not sure how tartan and kilts, which are rarely worn at all in contemporary Scotland You must be joking

@Fordian interesting comment. What do you mean exactly?

@Fordian

I have read at least half of the thread before stepping in.

In my experience, just about no Australian identifies themselves as Irish-Australian, or Greek-Australian, or Italian-Australian.

They identify themselves as being Australian, from 'x' heritage.

That's a bit different.

No, it's really not. That's just semantics.

@Fordian

I have read at least half of the thread before stepping in.

In my experience, just about no Australian identifies themselves as Irish-Australian, or Greek-Australian, or Italian-Australian.

They identify themselves as being Australian, from 'x' heritage.

That's a bit different.

Yes it’s slightly different

Often very happy to live with elements of Greek culture in Aus in many cases (for example) but not the same identifier