"I'm Irish American"

[MacMahon]

I've noticed that to many Americans their Irish, Scots, Italian etc. roots are a big part of their current identity. As a nation of immigrants in a New World I can see why this link to earlier generations is interesting and important.

But it's also something I find confusing.

I live in Yorkshire. I'm English. I have Irish ancestors on both side (great grandparents and great x2 grandparents). If I was in America this would quite possibly be a big deal. I'd be an Irish American and identify with the struggles and persecution that my people suffered at the hands of the English. But I wasn't born in America, I was born in Leeds, and my Irish ancestry play zero role in my identity.

I'm on an ancestry group and Americans are getting that DNA test done and finding out that, contrary to family lore that they are Cherokee or Mexican or Italian Americans, they're actually pretty much 'just' 100% British.

It makes me wonder how authentic this celebrating or identifying with their Irish/First Nations/Italian roots is, and how much is just (mistaken) tribalism and division.

Dh family is Irish. We have a Irish name. Maybe it's a lot less of a big deal when your roots are on your doorstep. We can pop over to Ireland in a few hours. I guess that removes some of mystical romantic shine of his origins. Plus a few decades ago being Irish in England wasnt a desirable thing whether people admit it or not. During the IRA bombings in London you would have got some people making comments.

Well I don't know about provncialism but as someone who grew up in the US in a very self-consciously and self-referntially "Irish-American" neighbourhood (despite almost no one being Irish) I'm really interested in how actual Irish people see the whole "Irish American" phenomenon.

I don't broach the subject with the Irish ppl I know in real life because I know its a sore point.

In the 70s and 80s especially there were a lot of people in my town with a lot of stroppy views and agendas about a country they'd never been to! Cringe.

offmycloud Do you really mean, as is implicit in your post that history, even our own has to be rationed, or is in someway finite?

I too have a great Uncle who fought in Burma, leading a troop from East Africa in the second wave of Chindit jungle warfare and on another side of the family there is a scandal involving Wingate which is still playing out in the generational impact of PTSD to this day. So of course I think this is a part of British History few know about but should, and I have researched it.

However I think that in no way detracts from the fact that we should also know about Irish History and Britain's role in it. Our nearest neighbour, a lot of us are the result of it, and it is very much relevant to what is happening in both Ireland and the UK today. The level of ignorance at every level of society including Ministers is really very dangerous. My DC was due to study a GCSE module on the troubles which I was pleased to see but it was withdrawn at the last minute with no reason given, presumably some sensitivity (and the GCSE and A level History syllabus are full of bias and old fashioned perspectives so I can't believe this was exceptional ).

Equally I would like us to move beyond the outdated stereotypes of our role in the Opium Wars, Indian partition etc. etc. etc. It is all impacting on life today and there for the knowing. Absolutely no reason to ration it!

Irish Americans are far from the only culture that have created a rich history of stereotypes to define their story....

@Coffeetree

Well I don't know about provncialism but as someone who grew up in the US in a very self-consciously and self-referntially "Irish-American" neighbourhood (despite almost no one being Irish) I'm really interested in how actual Irish people see the whole "Irish American" phenomenon.

I don't broach the subject with the Irish ppl I know in real life because I know its a sore point.

In the 70s and 80s especially there were a lot of people in my town with a lot of stroppy views and agendas about a country they'd never been to! Cringe.

I'm Irish, I find it amusing and a bit flattering but a lot of Irish Americans have a very old fashioned/stereotypical view of Irishness

I’m Irish and have absolutely no issue with anyone claiming to be Irish American or whatever they want. Shur let them at it. Don’t know why it’s bothering anyone else - I completely understand people wanting to be part of a community of people that are liked globally and have amazing culture and heritage.

The irony of this thread.
I've had English people call me English even though I'm a born and bred Scot! They sort of lump everybody in the UK into an 'English collective'. Hear it on TV and read it in books and magazines regularly. I actually arrived in Spain and was asked by a Spaniard 'are you English' - I had no problem with that, but when I said 'no I'm Scottish', my English travel companions said 'does it matter'! Er yes, if they asked if I was Egyptian, should I just had said 'yes'?

No problem how people hook their heritage into their description of identity, but let those who are confidently from one nation be identified as such.

@StoneofDestiny

The irony of this thread. I've had English people call me English even though I'm a born and bred Scot! They sort of lump everybody in the UK into an 'English collective'. Hear it on TV and read it in books and magazines regularly. I actually arrived in Spain and was asked by a Spaniard 'are you English' - I had no problem with that, but when I said 'no I'm Scottish', my English travel companions said 'does it matter'! Er yes, if they asked if I was Egyptian, should I just had said 'yes'?

No problem how people hook their heritage into their description of identity, but let those who are confidently from one nation be identified as such.

My dh is English and when people ask me where I'm from (due to my Irish accent) I tell them where I'm from in Ireland, but he interprets the question to mean, where do you live now, so thinks I should say London!

But I'm clearly not from fecking London!

I used to live in France and sometimes people just wanted to know what language I spoke though, so I didn't mind especially when people assumed I was English...I admit I did usually correct them politely though.

@Emilyontmoor, you can read from my post whatever you want.

I'd agree that the level of ignorance of some politicians is astounding, especially given their roles and responsibilities. I have no expectation that English students will develop a deep and rich understanding of our history, and associated legacy issue that exist today. Of course, there will be exceptions.

I'm Irish living in Ireland.
They can call themselves whatever they like as long as they stop calling it St Patty's Day

@BorderlineHappy

I'm Irish living in Ireland. They can call themselves whatever they like as long as they stop calling it St Patty's Day

Amen to that 😆

We might have st brideys day to go with st pattys soon.

@thelegohooverer

I’ve noticed that among my many friends and acquaintances who emigrated the only ones who seem ashamed of their accents, and scathing of Ireland are the ones who emigrated to the UK.

I suspect OP that the reason your ancestry plays no part in your identity is probably in large part to the discrimination your great grandparents faced and the need to integrate in order to survive.

This is true of my mother. She has completely lost her beautiful Galway accent, shortened her gorgeous Gaelic name to something that sounds like a plain 'English' name. She rarely talks about Ireland. Fundamentally, she has reinvented herself as English because of the discrimination she faced coming to London as a 12 year old. V sad.

It’s an interesting concept. My husband, when I met him, described himself as xxx-American (where xxx is the Eastern European country that his ancestors fled from in the 1800s). He doesn’t speak the language of that country, could find it on a map but has never been, and I used to laugh when he said this. To me, your nationality is more than just a blood line. It’s about an affiliation or connection with that country, an understanding that people who don’t live there don’t have. Following the Brexit vote I applied for Irish citizenship did you one grandfather being born in Ireland but I don’t feel Irish. I don’t know much about the place (not through ignorance, I just haven’t spent much time there) and I don’t really know what it means to be Irish. I don’t feel anything in common with someone who was born and raised in Ireland and I would never pretend that I do. I just keep my Irish citizenship tucked away in a spare pocket just in case it’s needed if I go to Europe.

I became a naturalized US citizen at the beginning of the year and I wondered what it meant. I was still me. But the longer I live here the more American I feel and the less British I feel, even though I don’t have a drop of American blood in my ancestry. I live here, I work here, day to day issues here and politics here affect every aspect of my life. I now feel like I’m an American with a British accent. It’s not that I have turned my back on the UK - I loved the UK and am still very proud to be British abc yo have grown up there - but the more I follow the news from the UK the more I realise how out of touch I sm with everything there. I couldn’t even tell you who the deputy prime minister is without looking it up, have no idea how much a loafing bread costs on average there or how much a first class stamp is. Those regular every day things seem alien to me now. I haven’t been back to the UK to visit since 2019 and I felt like an outsider even then. I imagine when I go again next year it will be even more so.

I have no problem with anyone calling themselves Irish Americans. They are proud of their ancestors many of whom landed there literally on the bones of their arse escaping famine in Ireland. The fact that they survived and made a life for themselves is something to be celebrated and I'm sure they would be delighted their descendants still consider themselves Irish.

I completely agree @JaneJeffer

I cringe when I hear it. You’re of Irish descent, your grandparents are Irish but you don’t need to state this when you present yourself 😂 just say I’m American

I'm a first-generation American. Mum came from Kilkenny, Ireland. Dad was from a Czech family but he himself came from Wroclaw, Poland. I'm a born and bred Californian. I NEVER call myself Irish American. But as mom says, "The Irish Americans are more Irish than the Irish."

@TheVanguardSix

I'm a first-generation American. Mum came from Kilkenny, Ireland. Dad was from a Czech family but he himself came from Wroclaw, Poland. I'm a born and bred Californian. I NEVER call myself Irish American. But as mom says, "The Irish Americans are more Irish than the Irish."

Like I said in my previous post, the Irish Americans have a very old fashioned/stereotypical view of what being Irish is. They're certainly not more Irish than actual Irish people but that's probably what your mother meant presumably 😜

Im on a I love Ireland site on FB. And some of the misconceptions is awful.
Asking for Car Bomb cocktails and then wondering why they are asked to leave.

Asking if we have electricity and can women vote.
Do they need a passport to go to Belfast.
I dont care what you call yourself but at least have some idea of the country you claim to be from.

but the more I follow the news from the UK the more I realise how out of touch I sm with everything there. I couldn’t even tell you who the deputy prime minister is without looking it up

In your defence on that point, we rarely have an “official” deputy PM, it’s not a required position and this September when Raab was appointed was the first time we’d had one since 2015 (Nick Clegg in the coalition).
But I appreciate what you’re saying about feeling like you lose touch with certain things.

My friend's daughter took her passport with her from Dublin to Belfast.

I was asked for photo id on the Belfast to Dublin Aircoach by gardai 6 years ago, so not necessarily silly.

But I'm clearly not from fecking London!

Lots of people say they are from London though. I've lost count of the amount of small talk where someone has said they are from London but it transpires that they moved here in their 20s. It seems quite normalised although I don't think it's accepted that if you moved to Newcastle or Cornwall you become a Geordie or Cornish.

My family is Italian American. It means something even though they emigrated to the us 120 years ago. They intermarried from neighbouring Italian villages even when in the ziS( my dad is 100 per cent genetically Italian) and for one generation at least kept the accent and the dialect. They eat the food made by their peasant forefathers and they ended up in stereotypical Italian American jobs (mayor, alderman, policeman) and went to school with kids in the mafia. They were hideously discriminated against right up until the 1940s. The third generation went to university and I’m only 50 per cent genetically Italian and fifty per cent Jewish. I’m an English person. bUt I don’t look English and all my life I’ve been asked where I’m really from. English people have never allowed me to be English, even 160 years of Jewish London roots doesn’t make me a real Londoner apparently. . People badger me until I give them another country. When I was younger I had the extraordinary experience of having an elderly woman in the countryside speak to my friend as she assumed I couldn’t speak English (I’m quite dark).
I’ve always felt I’d make more sense to others in America - I could just say I’m an Italian American or Italian American Jew and people would say Ooooh and accept me as both the origin and the American (while also being aware that Italian American doesn’t cut it with the posher American classes where Northern European is the top classy aristocrat origin story - Mayflower being the pinnacle of all).
I think of Italian American as different to Italian, it’s a particular way of being an American
But I also agree thst Americans have a ridiculously idealised idea of their origin countries.

British born US resident here.

I don't think there is anything wrong with Americans, the vast majority of whom are descended from people who came from other parts of the world, being proud of and interested in their heritage. For the most part these feelings coexist happily with being proud of being American.

Yes, the US is a big melting pot, and the way that different groups have kept some of their identity is part of what makes it so interesting. For example, Italian American families often celebrate Christmas differently to how other families would, preserving some of the Italian traditions, even though they may be third or fourth generation by this point. I think that's lovely.

I can understand that it can be annoying when someone who is American born and bred but who's great great grandparents emigrated from Ireland refers to themselves as Irish. But they are not trying to pretend that they come from there themselves - they are saying that their heritage is Irish. There's a difference.