Page 9 | To feel uncomfortable about gender representation in kids toys?

Legoisthebest · 01/11/2021 18:53

Whatever you do stereeotype don't look at the new Sindy Dolls in Argos/Sainsbury's or you will probably faint with horror at the pink and purple.
However both me (40s, fat, frumpy, never cared about fashion it make up) and daughter (13, all about hoodies and being emo) both want one for Christmas.

AlmostAlwyn · 01/11/2021 18:58

@XelaM

I have a daughter and she actually liked playing with dolls, model kitchens and ponies. Shock horror!

Whatever will become of her!

And by the way, I was obsessed with "Barbie" when I was a little girl and have gown up to be an independent career woman in a very high-sress environment on a six figure salary. Surprisingly, it didn't damage me that I liked pink and sparkle.

This thread is ridiculous

Of course it's fine to like playing with what you like, but if the choice is limited, it's not exactly a fair choice is it?

And of course there are successful women such as yourself, but statistically, the fewer girls play with STEM toys, the fewer girls will study STEM subjects at school and university level, and then go onto careers in those subjects.

So not entirely "ridiculous" in my opinion.

Legoisthebest · 01/11/2021 19:02

Again you need to look at the many careers of Barbie. I would say many of those are 'useful'.
Barbie and Lego Friends (which gets a lot of criticism)... let's see what jobs and careers they've had. You are basically saying being a vet, pilot, mechanic, scientist, chef, designer, sportsperson, TV news presenter, explorer etc is 'useless'.
You are saying being a nurse is 'useless'. Caring for babies is 'useless'.
Maybe the world does still (sometimes subconsciously) divide jobs into 'this is male, this is female' but to say many 'traditional' female roles and jobs are 'useless' is a massive insult to millions of women and what they do with their lives and for society.

CaptainMerica · 01/11/2021 19:10

@stereeotype

I was looking for a birthday gift and have to say the shopping made me feel...slightly uncomfortable on how badly the toy options played into gender stereotypes. I haven't looked for a kids present for years as I don't have children, but I think I'd be frustrated if I did!

I would go as far as to say I found it disturbing. There was relatively little of use in the 'pink' section and nothing but practical/technical learning material amongst the boys.

Now I appreciate you don't have to buy girls toys for girls and boys for boys - but a girl is likely going to assume she subconsciously wants the girls toys as there are pictures of girls all over the boxes so likely to veer towards those.

Also, why can't the girl section appear girly but the actual toy still be of use, not just a dolls head for hairdressing or a kitchen for cooking?

Can't believe it's 2021 and we are still dealing with this.

Isn't this a bit offensive to hair dressers? Why is a hairdressing doll or a kitchen of less use than a tool kit? I know which I use more often in real life!

I do wish there was more variety in colours though. Rightly or wrongly, I wouldn't buy my DC (both boys) stuff that was pink. And it was actually pretty hard to get a toy pram for them.

Original poster

stereeotype · 01/11/2021 19:35

@CaptainMerica jo it isn't offensive to hairdressers. Hairdressers are notoriously paid a low wage as are majority of jobs women enter into.

There is such thing as gender pay gap and in part that is due to our career choices. But where do these 'choices' come from?

OP posts:

Original poster

stereeotype · 01/11/2021 19:40

www.michaelpage.co.uk/diversity-campaign/childrens-job-aspirations-defined-by-gender

OP posts:

Original poster

stereeotype · 01/11/2021 19:41

I wonder where such job stereotyping comes from 🤷‍♀️

OP posts:

CatsArePeople · 01/11/2021 20:04

To be fair there are plenty of traditionally male jobs which are poorly paid and disrespected. So if you're linking toys to future earning potential, don't give toy lorries or DYI tools to boys - they may just end up working class.

On a serious not. I think anyone born in the 80's or earlier can remember much less gender coding of toys and clothes in the past. Its annoying that it has become so much rigid. You can encourage gender-neutrality in your own time what you want, but once kids are out in the world (school) they quickly pick up on societal norms and expectations. And then there comes gender woowoo brigade saying - oh, maybe you're born in the wrong body. At this is where we arrived after decades of feminism and fight for equality.

CatsArePeople · 01/11/2021 20:38

*not = note

G5000 · 01/11/2021 20:57

People are a tad naive stating that kids just like what they like and girls 'just naturally prefer' the stuff that's advertised to them. Toy advertising is a billion dollar industry. If it was all 'natural' they wouldn't need to bother.

There was a time when my DS carefully scrutinized every ad to see if boys were shown playing with the toy or not, and depending on that, he declared the toy to be for boys, girls or both. My DD had fights with boys, because they kept telling her girls can't like dinosaurs, as those are only advertised for boys. Of course it matters.

Legoisthebest · 01/11/2021 21:18

G500 do children really see much of advertising of toys though these days? A lot of children only watch TV via Netflix etc so they aren't getting the ad breaks. Adverts I see for Smyths tend to be for the shop not a particular toy. People don't tend to pick up physical Christmas catalogues any more (more people buying online). To be honest a lot of popular toys are word of mouth - has anyone ever seen an advert for those popper things? (Or other crazes in recent years like loom bands or fidget spinners).

CatsArePeople · 01/11/2021 21:28

children want what their friends have and what they see in shops. Advertising business also has moved on from ad breaks on tv to personalized online stuff.

Legoisthebest · 01/11/2021 22:00

Exactly Cats - children want what their friends have. Which is why word of mouth crazes are always so popular and (saying as someone that worked in a retail job selling toys for several years) the most asked for toys at Christmas tended to be products that weren't heavily advertised. It was often novelty things that were popular at that moment (remember Beyblades, Scoubidoos, Loom Bands etc).
I do agree somethings need to change but really it is down to parents not to put the 'this is for boys, this is for girls' idea in the children's heads to start with. Babies and toddlers do not take notice of adverts, the colour of the box, the aisle the toy was from etc. If parents just give their children access to a wide choice of toys (and of various colours) then change might happen. It isn't all down to toy and retail companies to do this. It's the parents.

Whitefire · 01/11/2021 22:24

My children see lots of adverts, Smyth's sends me their catalogue and they do watch Sky channels. We went to the cinema yesterday and there was a whole section of toy adverts. Mine are generally past the toy age, so not as effective on them anymore.

However my dd2 who is 9 never got into LOL dolls, despite all her peers being into them over the years. Yesterday though I was sorting out some stuff in ds13 room and came across his Moshi Monsters and he commented that he wished they were still made.

CatsArePeople · 01/11/2021 22:38

Oh, Rainbow Loom was totally mad on Youtube. Other things - they are very much game or film related. You don't really need tv commercials for Minecraft.

but really it is down to parents not to put the 'this is for boys, this is for girls' idea in the children's heads to start with

I'm not sure how this happens. We were always pro-freedom to play with whatever you please. Relatives and friends were pretty much the same - nobody pushed gender code. But my DC (all boys) aroud age 5 or 6 started to balk at "girly" things. For example they liked Frozen the film, but would not have an Elsa lunchbox. Minnie Mouse is also something unacceptable. DS2, who used to love Hello Kitty, became embarrased by it.

Legoisthebest · 01/11/2021 22:49

Actually yes I am probably wrong about adverts and I had managed to forget all those unboxing youtube videos that my daughter has thankfully outgrown .
Whitefire we found my 13 year olds Moshi Monsters the other day too while tidying up !!

KatharinaRosalie · 02/11/2021 05:56

Of course kids can still play with whatever they want and parents can buy a boy a pink globe. But I wonder, would it really be worse if toys were not sold this way? Would it be damaging if ads would show both boys and girls playing with a range of toys. If aisles had simply dolls and STEM and building blocks etc, not ''dolls and art supplies and other pink sparkly things' in one vs 'cars and STEM and building blocks' in other?

FusionChefGeoff · 02/11/2021 06:30

@Legoisthebest marketing professionals ie adults spend millions making the pink = girls blue = boys message.

Pink toys are always advertised with girls playing with them and have girls on the box.

I am a staunch feminist and have pushed a toys are toys message but DD sees the rest of the world telling her otherwise and at 4 decided she didn't want to play with certain things as they were boys toys.

Lego is the fucking worst. Fucking friends fucking pink and purple shit.

CatsArePeople · 02/11/2021 07:47

If aisles had simply dolls and STEM and building blocks etc, not ''dolls and art supplies and other pink sparkly things' in one vs 'cars and STEM and building blocks' in other?

It used to be like that in the past. I never had any pink/glittery shite in the 80's. I had girly toys allright, like tea sets and prams, but they used to come in normal colours.

Legoisthebest · 02/11/2021 07:48

Sorry Fusion but I refuse to agree with you over Lego Friends. The theme has introduced millions of girls around the world to Lego. The whole point of Lego is you can build whatever you want. I build displays for Lego shows and I regularly use Friends sets and I don't build traditionally 'girly' builds.

Legoisthebest · 02/11/2021 07:57

Katharina aisles in shops are set out that way for convenience of the customers. Having similar products together. That's why you find the jars of pasta sause in the same aisle as the bags of pasta in the supermarket.
It's about consumer convenience.
I am not saying all the blue/pink packaging is good - I actually agree it's often over the top but toys for the pre school age (the age that the stereotype ideas might get put into their heads) is actually usually not in pink or blue.

Newrunner29 · 02/11/2021 08:38

Lego friends is 100% aimed at girls its all pink and purple! Yes it might of 'got girls into lego' but if lego was aimed at girls and boys to begin with , there wouldnt be a need to get girls into lego! The videos i put up ealier clearly shows babies are programmed by young age by carers weather they mean to or not that they will automatically give the gendered toys.

CatsArePeople · 02/11/2021 08:48

Lego in general has become much more themed and less creative over the years.

actually usually not in pink or blue

its not pink and blue, but still very much gender coded. Frozen vs Avengers, sharks vs cats. And kids pick up on it.

My 6yo DS misplaced his water bottle. Refused to take mine to school. Because its with pink flamingoes (i'm a bit obsessed with flamingoes atm, but apparently they are unnaceptable for a primary aged boy)

4give4get · 02/11/2021 08:51

Lego in general has become much more themed and less creative over the years
I disagree that Lego is less creative now, in fact it's much the opposite. When I played with lego there were only basic colours and basic options, now you can build amazing models step by step AND take them apart and build a myriad of fantastic and innovative models. It's literally the gift that keeps giving.

Nomoreusernames1244 · 02/11/2021 09:18

My 6yo DS misplaced his water bottle. Refused to take mine to school. Because its with pink flamingoes (i'm a bit obsessed with flamingoes atm, but apparently they are unnaceptable for a primary aged boy)

Thinking about it, is pushing girls into “boys activities” the best route? Or should we make “girls” activities more acceptable to boys? We’re currently pinkifying boys toys- see lego- maintaining the gender split and actually reinforcing the pink vs blue message.

Boys will play with lego, but I bet they won’t touch lego friends.

Thinking about nursery and the messages given like in that bbc video. My eldest’s peer group was boy dominated. Two girls vs 8 or 9 boys. The boys all played happily with the dolls, prams, creative and imaginative play, alongside the girls. The girls didn’t have the peer power to maintain the gender divide, and because it’s seen as a good thing for girls to do boy activities, the boy side isn’t so heavily gender policed.

Now come my youngest, that group was girl dominated. The girls took up residence in the “girl” section, and boys were excluded and both boys and girls would jeer and boys wanting to do “girly” activities.

No obviously this is only two groups. But makes me think that until it’s acceptable for boys to join in traditionally girl stuff that gender divide will always remain. So we should be targeting boys- at the minute it’s all girls, and it’s also reinforcing women’s roles as lesser, as we’re holding up stem, building etc as the better achievement for both sexes..