To ask how can I have more ‘presence’?

[Invisible12345]

How do you have ‘presence’ that makes you get taken seriously at work?

I am a woman, average in stature, looks, middle aged, dress well

Often when I go to meetings, mostly with men, even though I am the decision maker and the one they need to ‘impress’ (not ego, it’s my role) they defer to male colleagues.

This may be through things like eye contact, aiming all of their questions and answers to them and not to me. It’s a small pond industry so I can’t pull them up rudely or cast them off, I need to collaborate

How do I assert myself in a friendly way?

How do I act in future meetings after this has already happened?

Do you mean external men seek feedback/advice from your male colleagues instead of looking to you for answers?

Apart from being irritating is this detrimental to you i.e. is it making you look like you don’t know your subject matter/undermining you in front of your male colleagues?

Approach depends a bit on the detail of what’s happening

Do you take the lead and drive the meeting?

I'm youngish and in a senior management role.
I usually start the meeting off, introduce myself, ask everyone else too (if not internal) and drive the discussion. "The objective of our meeting here today is to blah blah" etc.

For starters these male colleagues are part of the issue. If you're senior to them you're well within your rights to address it directly with them. They can redirect the externals back to you. Politely but firmly and consistently

I agree with Eeiliethya - take control and structure the meeting or encounter of other type
Even if casual eg zoom meeting - start off with “thanks for coming everyone - we are here today to………..” and carry on in same vein
If people divert to others - pull them back
They divert a question to someone else - interject “that’s a great question x I think……….”
Be firm - positive - friendly - don’t back down

@PegasusReturns - it makes me seem superfluous. As an example, I’ve been at a meeting where we were given a physical presentation. The rep decided to walk my colleague around and take him through it, not me. I was tagging along, trying to ask questions and shoe horn myself into the conversation. How do you manage that?

@Eeiliethya @JaceLancs - many meetings are informal catch ups but I probably don’t lead enough. It is a technical business so some advisory colleagues can go into detail which can take over and then it’s hard to get a word in.

Walk into the meeting with great posture and with purpose

[quote Invisible12345]@PegasusReturns - it makes me seem superfluous. As an example, I’ve been at a meeting where we were given a physical presentation. The rep decided to walk my colleague around and take him through it, not me. I was tagging along, trying to ask questions and shoe horn myself into the conversation. How do you manage that?

@Eeiliethya @JaceLancs - many meetings are informal catch ups but I probably don’t lead enough. It is a technical business so some advisory colleagues can go into detail which can take over and then it’s hard to get a word in.[/quote]
Yeah you've got to take the lead even on informal catch ups otherwise you get carried along.

Do you have actions that come out of informal catch ups? A good method would be to ask somebody to make minutes of actions, as actions arise ask the team "who will take the lead on this", or delegate yourself and give them a deadline. Make sure the minute taker forwards you the notes.

At the next meeting, open your notes, start by asking if the actions from the last meeting have been completed etc.

You've got to be bold, if you feel somebody is directing their attention to your colleague then absolutely shoe horn your way in.

I've took some shit over the years. I remember on my first day, one of the guys called me a Doris and asked me to stick the kettle on. He reports to me now and guess who makes the drinks when clients visit our site?

You need to be confident, know enough of the technical stuff that you arent handing over to the experts 100% and keep picking the thread back up, e.g. if something technical takes over and 'Fred' is explaining it at the end you can say something along the lines of "thank you Fred for explaining that, does anyone have any questions' etc, it sounds like you are passively letting the meeting happen rather than actively taking charge.

Do you have a mentor you can roleplay, discuss this with, view in action. It doesnt need to be someone within your own company although it can be helpful if it is.

Fuck friendly. You either are or are not in charge. Stop thinking of other people's feelings ( men dont). Thank how you get your job done. Think of your vision for how this situation turns out. Explain your vision to others. By all means take other people's ideas on board an credit where credit is due. But lead. Don't attempt some kind if committee based view where no one is happy.

Do not try to squeeze yourself in!!
You loudly say
Excuse me! Can I just stop you there. Hi I’m invisible and I’m the job title, I’ll be the one who signs off on this project, i don’t think we’ve met.
Then hold your hand out for a firm handshake and ask a follow up question that then forces them to talk to you.

If men are deferring to other men I often laugh and say something like
Yes! other man, would you like to tell us what I’m taking away from first mans presentation.

First man do you have anything else you’d like to tell other man?

Or simply oh great, I’m glad you two managed to reach that decision without me, but let’s just have a chat together first shall we

After a few times they get embarrassed and stop doing it as much, even just to avoid the awkwardness of me being cringe

But ultimately you need to enter the meetings making it clear you are in charge, you tell them what you’ll discuss, you raise the subject, you suggest who speaks (even if just opening the floor up) you can pick up and summarise and then let someone else speak but you lead things and keep bringing it back to you and your objectives

If someone speaks over you, keep speaking. Don’t allow them to interrupt.

There’s a great book called something like nice girls don’t get the corner office that may be useful

Not kidding--I'd follow the advice from Ted Lasso's Rebecca and "make yourself big."

Here's the scene:

Do informal catch ups require the presence of Advisory colleagues? In your position I’d be a bit more cut throat about who I invite to go -no go / decision making meetings or those with third parties. Advisory / mouthy colleagues should have seperate meetings if they have a habit of taking over

It just takes practice. Get some role play with a mentor and just interject

I'm sorry to say it but I think you have to:

• dress the part. Make sure you look smart enough for your seniority
• demand attention. If people are deferring to your make colleagues the. Introduce yourself. Hi I'm Mary. I'm the project lead. I don't think we've been introduced.
• and of that doesn't work, get shirty. It's outrageous that this shit is still happening. It's not you, it's them. Be outraged

Have your ‘colors’ done as well as a style session and see how other people’s reaction to you changes. It’s quite staggering.

To add to the other advice, consider which seat you take at the table. If it is a rectangle table you need to sit either at the top (on the short edge) or in the middle seat on a side (longer edge). If the table is another shape, in any case evaluate which seat could be considered the “top” or “centre” and make it yours.

I suspect it's more about attitude than appearance.

I had a situation where someone explained something to a male colleague. The male colleague explained that they needed to ask me. They turned around and said what do you think? So, I pretended I hadn't heard the conversation and made them do the whole explanation again from the start.

Stop running around after people. Next time that sort of thing happens, sit in your seat and refuse to sign off on the thing because you don't know anything about it. They'll soon learn to redirect conversations to you.

@WeeTattieBogle

I’m sure this will be dismissed but I have to agree with you. I had my colours done a year or so ago. When I dress in them, I get noticed in a way that I never have before. Smart is one thing, but a lot of business wear is drab, dark, sober etc. I think if you are of average height and appearance then wearing the right colours (not necessarily flamboyant or showy, unless that’s your style) will get peoples attention in this first instance - and help you to initiate a lot of the “taking charge” actions that are outlined here.

You either are or are not in charge I agree with this, if you are in charge, act like it. Set the tone for the meeting, with introductions, job titles / responsibilities etc. Assign a minute taker. Act like the chair - which includes cutting off rambling technical chat when it goes on too long.

Copying is good - similar to having a mentor I guess. If you see someone who’s good at this, watch and learn.

Two things then:

Set expectations and delegate clearly.

In your example of a walk round, when it is suggested you look at the most senior vendor and say

“A walk around would be helpful but before we start I’d like to know ABC” or “I’ll be making my decision based on XYX, so would like to know more about that”.

As PP suggested start the meeting with intros “Jim thanks for coming in, Steve would you like to kick off introductions.” You always go last so you can set objectives and make it clear you’re the decision maker:

“I’m Sara Taylor and I head up widgets function, I’m particularly interested in hearing more about how you can facilitate the transition from widgets A to widgets B production. Steve could you take notes. Any questions before we start”.

Thank you everyone

@ZenNudist - committee has been my style, I saw it as inclusive, I’m not the expert and welcome a team approach but I can see that’s a problem.

The annoying thing is, my male colleagues do it without having to assert, they command respect from the start. They don’t need to say ‘I am the man you need to focus on’ it just happens. @Sleepyhungryfattyanddoc - I’m not sure how to navigate reinserting myself without seeming odd. People would say ‘yes, of course, we’re just having a chat!’ Essentially, calm down!

As an aside as this interests me anyway,
@workwoes123 - can I ask where you get your colours done?

I know this probably isn’t you but some LIGHT snark to assert yourself can be so useful. That walk around example is outrageous - I feel something like “well I’m sure the walk round will be fun for you two but I’m hardly going to be able to buy your XYZ if I haven’t seen it, am I?” Smile laugh etc would be appropriate. You need to remind them that you are the “buyer”, you have a position you’ve EARNED. And yes do chat to trusted male colleagues - they can do the whole “that’s really more a question for Mary” thing

The annoying thing is, my male colleagues do it without having to assert

Well yes because they’re men. It’s rubbish but the world we live in prioritises men and their opinions so we have to be more than them.

As a technical lead I'd say technical discussions can sometimes be all about the details but as lead I ask the questions about timing, co-ordination between groups, resourcing and costs. So higher level stuff, I can do the technical details when needed but the questions that mark me out as the lead are the who what why where when questions.

I think you have to have faith in yourself, be prepared to interject, don't worry about being 'nice' and actually owning the fact that some people will not like you at times, and know that your job is to see the bigger picture. You can still be collaborative, I see a big part of my job as encouraging less experienced staff and giving them opportunities but that in itself is a great way to assert your authority - 'thanks for that Jon, that's a really great piece of work you did there' tells everyone in the room that you are the boss. Oh, another one, in an informal chat walk into the room and say 'Hi Craig, how are you getting on today?', it's friendly but immediately puts them into the situation of having to explain what they are doing and you are asking them the questions.

I'm not convinced by having your colours done, always ask yourself the question 'does a man have to do that?' and if not don't do it yourself, that covers fussing about appearance, apologising, being friendly, an

Me and my exh had a business together. He made the product, but i worked on the production too.

I also ran social media, did the accounts, pricing, contracts, customer service, pitched to retailers etc.

At one retailer meeting, which I had arranged they completely differed to him. I got asked 'so what do you do? A bit of admin?'

I clearly pointed out that is was me that started the company, built the social media flowing and secured all our sales. Then told them, they weren't a company I wanted to deal with. And left.

Exh thought I was over reacting and it didn't matter if they thought I didn't do much. Which it didn't to him, because he had never dealt with it. It was always assumed he was the decision maker and I tagged along and he was kind enough to give me a small role in the company to keep me occupied.

I sold my half to him when we divorced and the company folded 2 years later.

But it taught me that I have to be more assertive than men, have a bigger presence than men and clearly mark out my own territory. I have been employed work since and have the problem far less.

My teams know I am collaborative and really want their input. However, they also know the final decisions are mine, it's me that gets the shit if it goes wrong and the final decision will be ultimately come down to me. In meetings where people do try and defer to men, they quickly point out the ultimate decision is mine.

Personally it's more about presence than anything else. It's about asserting that presence straight away. Make sure everyone knows in the room, you lead the team.

Sorry posted to soon. Use phrases such as 'when I make the decision'. Not 'we'.

Tell people 'what I want to see is X'