To wonder why it takes a GP 7 years to train?

[Swedes2Turnips1]

When all they seem to do is say 'I will write you a letter of referral' or 'You will have to make an appointment with the practice nurse for that'. What do they actually do these days?

itscoldtoday brilliant post.

MY DH is a GP and has followed a very similar path to yours.

He works very, very hard and has just become a partner (finally) after God knows how many years of hospital medcine, exams, exams exams (that all cost a fortune to take) and hours of study. He also earns nothing like this £150 that the papers like to bandy about.

OP's like this make me absolutely furious, and I have to parp myself quietly, that or start putting 's all over the shop.

As you say it is great to see so many posters coming to the defense of their GP's.

And in answer to your question;

"Why can you pay to have the test done privately without seeing a GP but you can't have it done on the NHS without seeing a GP, not even as an option?"

Because private clinics are money making exercises and will be more than happy to stick a needle in you if you're happy to pay £32 for the privilege. Your GP will consider your need for this test and will not be clouded by financial interest.

It costs ~£15 to process a simple biochemistry test like this and if anyone could wander in off the street and get this done the NHS would be wasting a great deal more money than it already is.

From what you have written it is not possible to asceratin whether you need a thyroid function test. It is a basic principle of medicine that taking a history from and examining the patient comes before investigations - this can't be done over the phone.

agree re: costs.

interesting that swedes complains re: cost of parking at her gp's surgery etc but not the cost of the private blood test where the profits for the shareholders crank up her bill

the hours of study comment sounds ridiculous. I have to correct myself. While DH was doing his VTS (scheme to become a GP), he would work a 'normal' day as hospital doctor (ha ha like that is ever 9-5), and then he would come home, eat and then study. And he would study for 3-4 hours every night, almost every night (or day if he had been on night shift) every week, for 3 years.

I missed out on him for 3 years. dd1 saw almost nothing of her father for the first year of her life because he was studying to pass the exams for him to become a GP.

AND SWEDES DO YOU THINK THAT ALL STOPS WHEN THE EXAMS ARE PASSED?

No is the answer to that.

See I am getting cross now...............................

parp

oh and my GP, god bless her, proved an invaluable source of support when I was unwell this year, including completely unscheduled phone calls for support etc etc. She made sure I was booked in for the last appt in the morning in case I needed more time and never made me feel like anything was too much trouble.

Haven't read all of this thread but in response to the OP.

You get good Gps and bad ones as in any profession. However all the GPs I've had dealings with personally and professionally have been extremely hard working. I recieve referral letters from GPs all the time working in CAMHS they have a hell of a lot of admin to do referring individuls to the appropriate specialist service as well as everything else of which there is a LOT.

I used to work with GP trainees on an acute mental health unit, the amount of knowledeg they have to have in essential areas such as this to qualify is phenomenal.

I'm always impressed by the sensitivity and consideration with which GPs treat their pts with mental health problems and that's all due to their own attitude and all the training they've done.

It occurs to me that together with the GP's posting here there may be many more reading this out there - so I'd just like to say you guys are great! And to my fellow NHS managers - you're pretty fab too

re NHS managers, I've not met any, but I bet you are just as spiffy as all the other NHS people that I have met!

Martianbishop - we've got nothing on the patients - and especially the patient's wives

That ' is in the wrong place isn't it - to be clear I was not referring to one patient with many wives but to many patients who each have have smashing wives - like MB. Phewwwwww...

patients wives eh?? Is that like readers wives, but with a stool sample bottle???

Love my GP practice - bloody marvellous people. I find the BUPA advert really funny - you know the one where Sue is a bit tired, God love her, and so spends all day at a BUPA clinic, eating muesli, having all sorts of tests until finally they check her iron levels, and what do you know? She's a little bit anaemic. My GP would have worked that one out in 5 mins...

"Apart from baby check ups/preg check ups and well woman screening, I haven't been to the GP since I was 11"

And that's why, to be quite honest, I don't think you know enough about this system to make an informed comment. Most of the UK is in this fortunate position and I hope you will stay that way for many years.

If you're interested in channeling your experiences for the greater good, though, you could suggest your practice set up a patient liaison committee (mine is doing this, albeit mind-numbingly slowly), you could see if one of the local hospital trusts needs new members for its board, and your local PCT may also need members of the public for its board at some time in the future. They tend to want power users of the NHS like me, but actually I think the experience of the casual user is very interesting and different - and relevant.

Swedes2 I was diagnosed "by accident" during routine bloods several years ago.

I was borderline and slightly symptomatic. I was quite well while pg but thyroid levels plumetted after DS was born and it took time to recover.

I was thinking, if you are diagnosed, you will have to have regular blood tests and prescriptions - how will you manage that? Is there anotehr surgery in the vicinity which does take bloods? Even if slightly further away, perhaps easier to get to / free parking etc rather than having to trail up to the hospital?

Thank you for the kind things you have said about my post.

I've calmed down a little now...!

Swedes, in answer to your original problem: it's likely that the situation is not as straightforward as you think.

Your GP's receptionists are possibly instructed to not allow patients to just ask for a referral for a blood test. This may be because there are quite a lot of patients who think it's ok to just demand a blood test for xyz despite it not being indicated. GPs need to assess whether or not the test is indicated (since the cost of that test comes out of their budget for patient care).

I personally don't think it is unreasonable to think your request could be dealt with over the phone - but a receptionist isn't trained to decide whose request is and whose isn't appropriate to deal with over the phone. Consequently, it may be the practice policy that all such requests are routinely given a GP appointment. Actually you are lucky your surgery a) has enough appointments to do this and b) are offering such a comprehensive service, rather than fobbing you off with a phone call to save their time. Your GP might be able to do more than just order a blood test. Your symptoms can come from more than one problem, and it's worth all options being discussed/examination being performed as indicated.

It is not that unusual for a GP surgery to not do their own bloods, and for their patients to have to go to their local hospital for phlebotomy. But it is not a good idea for patients to turn up and ask for any test without someone assessing the need for that test. And if you want me to go into details of why that is I will, though I think my post is long enough for the time being.

Any GP can understand that dragging a young family into the surgery is a hassle, we do sympathise. But you are actually complaining about your GP being thorough!

So the GPs work very very hard. Perhaps they do but medical research scientists take 7 years of studying to get their PhD. They work very hard for very little recognition or pay. Pharmacists take 5 years of training only to be pushed aside by GPs, despite them being the drug experts.

I find the hypersensitivity of the GPs on this thread pathetic. There are so many people in the wider medical field who do a wonderful job. It is just a shame the GPs always want the limelight via a sob story.

Journey - I haven't seen any of the GP's on this thread trying a sob story for attention. In fact I think they would be the first to say how much they value their colleagues in lab medicine, radiology etc.

I am a medical research scientist. I have a PhD. I work hard. But I don't work anywhere near as hard as a GP. Not in terms of hours (unless you count reading things I'm interested in) and certainly not in terms of stress. It's nowhere near as well-paid as general practice, I'll grant you, but I wouldn't swap for the world. GPs have an incredibly demanding job and have to be extremely intelligent and hard working to get there in the first place.

Journey, when you see a thread (or whole series of threads) on here that start (effectively) "Goodness me, but medical research scientists are a complete waste of time, aren't they?" that post might be justified. But unless those posts are cropping up in Post-natal clubs or Pets (which I have on Ignore) I don't think that's been the case.

Journey - you've obviously been reading a different thread to me.

The original post was an attack on GPs, not on pharmacists and medical scientists (who also do an excellent job). In my experience GPs don't want "the limelight" - they're just sick and tired of unreasonable criticism.

I don't recall sobbing, Journey. And nor do I recall at any point suggesting that any profession doesn't deserve recognition, praise or thanks. And I include the nurses, phlebotomists, receptionists, hospital porters SALTs, ECG technicians, lab staff, radiographers, ambulance technicians, paramedics, physios, OTs, WRVS ladies, everyone associated with healthcare. Oh, and for that matter I think posties work really hard and rotten hours, our bin men are fab, I'm sure working in a call centre is a thankless job, carers - no words can describe how vital their job is, teachers can be a lifelong inspiration to so many people, I couldn't work in an abattoir... Where would you like me to stop praising people for the hard work they do?? The OP asked specifically about what GPs train for 7 (sic) years to do... I tried to answer.

(oh, and NHS managers of course! )

itscoldtoday