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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder why it takes a GP 7 years to train?

371 replies

Swedes2Turnips1 · 11/12/2007 13:42

When all they seem to do is say 'I will write you a letter of referral' or 'You will have to make an appointment with the practice nurse for that'. What do they actually do these days?

OP posts:
AnneMayesR · 13/12/2007 17:33

Northernlurker, no manager cares about their patients if they are not instituting safe nurse patient ratios. Here is another blog for you.

militantmedicalnurse.blogspot.com/2007/09/my-am-i-so-angry.html

Look at all the research out there regarding nurse: patient ratios and how people die and suffer as a result of managers thinking it is okay for one nurse to look after 12 patients. I think the other word for that is ..uh..murder.

You guys would save your trusts big money by reducing complications, deaths, failure to rescue, falls,complaints and pneumonia. The money that you could save is proven to offset the costs of hiring more nurses to meet proven ratio standards. One nurse to 4-6 patients medical and one nurse to 4 surgical. You could have the best and most hard working nurses in the world but when you go above those ratios the nursing care gets poor.

www.nursingadvocacy.org/faq/short-staffed.html

Sorry to hijack but I always try and educate our managers. They are so in need of it.

SlubbersRingAreYouListening · 13/12/2007 17:41

expat you would be amazed at the number of patients that came to see me without any underwear on at all. A typical exchange:

me: Righto MrsB, could I have a look at your back now? If you'd like to strip down to your bra and pants I'll be back in, in a minute
MrsB: aaaaaaaaaaah weeeeeeeeeeeeeeell, I don't have my bra or knickers on today.
me: (rearranging face out of position) OK, well I can give you some hospital paper pants.
MrsB: oh yuck no thanks
me: Well do you want me to examine you in the nude?
MrsB: NO
me: well we will have to make you another appointment then for me to look at your back
MrsB: But I wanted it sorted today. Can't you just do it with my clothes on?
me: er well, no not really, not properly anyway.
MrsB: grumble grumble bloody NHS, my bloody rights I AM IN PAIN YOU KNOW grumble grumble
me:

expatinscotland · 13/12/2007 17:52

So you're getting folks who are so gross they run with no underwear - eeewwwww! - and then squabble about a doctor examining them with some clothing items missing?

For real?!

Really, the mind boggles.

I could not do this job because it would make me want to slap people.

macdoodle · 13/12/2007 17:58

swedes so you have had your thyrpid checked privately it is normal....you stll feel lke shite! So NOW you have to se your GP...he/she now wants to exclude some other things so you will need another blood test to check your blood count/iron level to start and perhaps some others...if you had bothered to go in the first place your Gp could have excluded some other basic things at the same time...but then you know best of cours you do Tony Bliar told you that didn't he and that you are "entitled" to whatever the hell you want...then he ran the NHS into the ground blamed the GP's and resigned

expatinscotland · 13/12/2007 17:58

It's always those who most need to be wearing a bra, too, who go without.

I won't even go into those folks who don't wear underpants, because everyone knows how I feel about that!

BARF!

I'm still reeling from someone's post on another thread stating that people call for a doctor to come see them because they can't get to sleep.

WTF!

I'd make them sleep forever allright!

I mean, haven't they ever heard of booze? Or cannabis? Or junk dealers at the bus station who usually also have supplies to hand for users wishing to prolong their high, but which will serve to alleviate the non-junkie suffering from insomnia quite well?

AnneMayesR · 13/12/2007 18:06

Okay another quick hijack and then I will butt out.

Northernlurker, you may be a wonderful caring manager for all I know. I hope I didn't offend you with my posts. I was transferring the extreme rage I feel towards MY managers.

Swedes2Turnips1 · 13/12/2007 18:31

I have just come back from my GP appointment. He was very nice actually. He has given me a form for both a thyroid test and a fbc. Unfortunately they can't do this until the 24th Decemember so I have booked to have it done privately on Monday afternoon (thyroid and fbc costs £36)

OP posts:
macdoodle · 13/12/2007 18:37

ok swedes professional support and all that aside ...either your GP or PCT are CRAP...you should be able to have this done in the surgery within a few days - if our phlebotomist waa full I would get one of our practice nurses to do it....please just dont tar us all with the same brush it truly is soul destroying

itscoldtoday · 13/12/2007 19:49

Quattro - I'm sorry your surgery sounds so run down. But I'd imagine working in a place where they have to lock the toilets to stop people shooting up in them would dent your morale slightly, so may explain at least a little some of the attitude you come across (not that that makes it acceptable).
But about the "there are not enough doctors because we don't train enough...because the medical profession colluded in this...because you increase salaries" I'd like to hear your evidence (other than the Daily Mail) for this! In fact just this week it was reported that UK applicants to medical schools is down 2.3% due, in large part, to the £3000 per year fees (for a 5-year degree where you do not get student holidays and are expected to get weekend/evening experience on the wards, so earning money on the side is pretty hard. Fancy starting life £15000 in debt?)
Why does the Health Service need gatekeepers? Well there are many different models of Healthcare. One of the other models which you come across in for example Portugal, is where you refer yourself to the specialist for whatever complaint you have. So if you have say chest pain, you go to a cardiologist. But you are not medical, and do not know that your chest pain is not from your heart, but from your gullet - so you present yourself to the wrong specialist wasting your time and theirs, plus you money since most healthcare systems are not free.
Also, gatekeepers prevent people from thinking, ooh I feel a little under par, I know I'll get myself a list of 20 blood tests, 3 x-rays, and ultrasound and a CT scan. Thus running up an enormous bill, not to mention exposing yourself to goodness knows how much ionising radiation. Plus it is well documented that scattergun investigations sometimes pick up irrelevant abnormalities leading to investigations that aren't necessary, may be harmful, and may lead to the real diagnosis being overlooked.
Harrisey - wow! That's some half day!!
Swedes - I don't think this is about patting people on the back. You said "I have had very limited experience of GPs". Yet on the basis of one conversation with the receptionist, you decided to start a thread slagging off all GPs, then find it weird when GPs/their friends/relatives/even patients reply saying, um don't tar them all with the same brush. It'd be like me saying, we had a teacher kicked out of school for "tickling" the girls, and starting a thread titled "Goodness, aren't all teachers paedophiles" and being surprised at a rush of people parping. And I don't think anyone has been "summarily exectued". I think when people have made points, we have tried to answer them with the knowledge we have. It's just that you don't seem to like/agree with our answers.
The government are perfectly happy for the media to continue to feed the current popular opinion that GPs are overpaid, underworked, underskilled and rplaceable. Because then a) the blame for NHS problems is directed away from the government, and b) they are a step closer to privatising the NHS and removing an almighty headache from them (without the need to see a neurologist )
And you also don't seem to be paying any attention to what we are saying (no doubt because you can do better). But more than one person on this thread has said your symptoms can be caused by more than one thing. So you insisting on a blood test before seeing your GP saves no-one any time, if you go for the result, then have to go all the way back for more tests that could have been done first time round if you'd had a consultation first (think of all those parking/babysitting charges!)
Expat - they come in armed with sheafs of paper they've downloaded from the net!

OK I've been typing this as I've been reading, so some (a lot!) of what I am saying has been duplicated.
Then I get to Swede's post "I've been sent for thyroid test and FBC". Exactly what we've been saying! If you'd gone for the blood test first and it was normal, you'd have had to then see GP for examination, then gone back for fbc, then back to gp for result of that! Thunnk!

edam · 13/12/2007 19:53

That's very odd, Swedes, at Davenport House I just get sent to the Harpenden Memorial where they have a phlebotomy service. Mind you, haven't been there for a while, maybe the PCT have canned it?

itscoldtoday · 13/12/2007 19:58

"He was very nice actually"

DarrellRivers · 13/12/2007 20:00

I prescribe you a Balint group session STaT, itscoldtoday....

itscoldtoday · 13/12/2007 20:12

Indeed, DarrellRivers!

NorthernLurkerwithastarontop · 13/12/2007 21:05

Anne - your post of 17.33 did indeed offend me - and I was planning a horrible response - but your post of 18.06 - has eradicated that rage I am a wonderful caring manager actually and have nothing to do with nurse ratios - but if I did I would listen to the nurses - I'm assuming you are a nurse? Whatever role you do - more power to your elbow

Swedes2Turnips1 · 13/12/2007 21:41

Edam - Is that the Red House? They couldn't offer me an appt there until after christmas. So even longer to wait than for St Albans City Hosp appt on Christmas Eve. Perhaps it is to do with it being Christmas - trying to condense everybody into fewer working days over the next couple of weeks perhaps?

OP posts:
Swedes2Turnips1 · 13/12/2007 21:49

itscoldtoday - He was very nice actually is not such a terrible thing to say. Remember this is a GP whose only advice to me was to "go private - you've got a big house" whilst I was awaiting a very important and urgent op for which no surgeon and no bed could be found.

OP posts:
Spockster · 14/12/2007 14:22

Expat; my GP trainer got a call at 2am from a little old lady whose radiator was leaking (this is not a euphamism; it was her real radiator, in her bedroom). Like a fool, he went out to her and patched it up. This is either a lovely GP who has his patients' best interests at heart; or a total idiot who asks for what he gets and will get what he asks for. Either way, not a life for me!!

Blandmum · 14/12/2007 14:29

My old GP was once called out to see to a student who had 'an allergic reaction' to alcohol. The student had drunk 8 pints and was not allergic to anything. He was pissed

edam · 14/12/2007 14:31

I used to know someone who was a TV repairman who went on to become a GP.

He said his elderly patients used to call him out on home visits when their TVs went on the blink - and they were more grateful when he fixed their sets than if he got their dodgy hips sorted.

expatinscotland · 14/12/2007 18:47

Now do you all finally see why I find old people so completely annoying that I hope I die before I get there myself?

My hat's off to any healthcare professional because honestly I would be postal after just a day.

FairyBasslet · 14/12/2007 23:02

Just found this post and skimmed it quickly.

As an NHS accountant who deals with GPs regularly, I have to stick up for them and say that, in general, our GPs are great, incredibly hard working, devoted to patient care, and, like all of us in the NHS, constantly battling to do our jobs despite the everchanging whims, targets and bureacracy of the DoH.

I totally agree with itscoldtoday in that the government is essentially trying to wage a media spin campaign to undermine the reputation of GPs. They've now realised they gave away more than they expected to with the new contract and that GPs, being the hardworking, often enterprising people they are, will hit the targets and tick the boxes and therefore, quite fairly, be financially rewarded. So the government blames the GPs for doing their jobs well and upholding their contract and tries to make them look bad in the eyes of the general public. Just don't believe all this nonsense.

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