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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder why it takes a GP 7 years to train?

371 replies

Swedes2Turnips1 · 11/12/2007 13:42

When all they seem to do is say 'I will write you a letter of referral' or 'You will have to make an appointment with the practice nurse for that'. What do they actually do these days?

OP posts:
TheBlonde · 11/12/2007 14:12

YABU

GP gives you a form or a letter to take to the blood tests dept at a local hosp or clinic. A phlebotomist then takes your blood. Easy peasy.

camillathechicken · 11/12/2007 14:14

yours might say that, but mine doesn't. there are some not so good doctors, certainly the one that misdiagnosed my Crohns disease as piles is one of them.. but the 4 Gps at the practice i belong to now are absolutely amazing..... being a GP is very demanding, you have to know a lot about a lot of medical things!

bossybritches · 11/12/2007 14:15

YAB TOTALLY U!!!

But I shall put it down to being unfamiliar with the system rather than infalmmatory.

As a GP you don't specialise in one thing like consultant orthpaedic surgeons , say, or children but because you have to have a pretty deep knowledge of ALL areas you do lots of extra training in general subjects rather than focus on the one.

If you think about the variety of patients a GP sees in one day, he/she has to be Sherlock Holmes to sift out the many & varied symptoms presented to know which specialist needs the referral. In the meantime basic blood/urine/faecal tests/xrays/ can help narrow down the "suspects" so that the appropriate refferal can be made.

GP's have a thankless task as they have so many paths to choose in diagnosis & if they get the wrong one it could literally be fatal for the patient, it's a HUGE responsibilty.

Joash · 11/12/2007 14:16

Up until 2005, those wishing to become a GP had to do a minimum of the following postgraduate training:

one year as a pre-registration house officer (PRHO) (formerly called a houseman), in which the trainee would usually spend 6 months on a general surgical ward and 6 months on a general medical ward in a hospital;
two years as a senior house officer (SHO) - often on a General Practice Vocational Training Scheme (GP-VTS) in which the trainee would normally complete four 6-month jobs in hospital specialties such as obstetrics and gynaecology, paediatrics, geriatric medicine, accident and emergency or psychiatry;
one year as a general practice registrar.
This process has changed under the programme Modernising Medical Careers. Doctors graduating from 2005 onwards will have to do a minimum of 5 years postgraduate training:

two years of Foundation Training, in which the trainee will do a rotation around either six 4-month jobs or eight 3-month jobs - these include at least 3-months in general medicine and 3-months in general surgery, but will also include jobs in other areas;
two years as on a General Practice Vocational Training Scheme (GP-VTS) in which the trainee would normally complete four 6-month jobs in hospital specialties such as obstetrics and gynaecology, paediatrics, geriatric medicine, accident and emergency or psychiatry;
one year as a general practice registrar.

walkinginawinterBundleland · 11/12/2007 14:18

swedes, would you like the gp and phlebotomist to come to your house to save you the trouble?

bossybritches · 11/12/2007 14:19

Wow it's got even longer over the last few years then!!

littleboo · 11/12/2007 14:23

walkinginawinter.... you'd be suprised how many people out there really do expect that to happen, the visit i mean. i know people who expect a visit cos "they've put their car away in the garage for the evening!!!!"
TBH, I would much rather a phlebotomist took my bllod, they're doing it day in day out. not that the GP can'y , just no a skill they have to use all the time.

Doctordh · 11/12/2007 14:23

My dh is a doctor (hospital doctor, not GP).

He graduated at 23. He took his MRCP exams and passed them (3 stages). He is now doing his speciality exams. Each of these exams costs hundreds of pounds per stage.

He is 31 now and still studying every day, even then, he will only be a specialist in one specific area.

walkinginawinterBundleland · 11/12/2007 14:24

last time i had a blood test from a phlebotomist (in a clinic at the hospital I was, er, referred to) i literally didn't feel a thing, he was so skilful

MerryAnnSinglemas · 11/12/2007 14:24

YABU I'm afraid and GPs are specialists - it's a very hard and demanding job

Unfitmother · 11/12/2007 14:28

Yes, YABU.

ChristmasSendsMePsycho · 11/12/2007 14:37

my brother is heading on his path to be a GP.

he started at uni at 18 doing his medical degree, is now 26 and hasn't even started to specialise in the GP bit. Is currently 'just' a H.O.

I too am shocked at how long it is going to take, as well as the cost, but like others have said to be a GP you have to know a bit about every type of speciality (ie, ob-gyn, paeds, orthapaedics, psychology, geriatrics(sp?), gastrology etc)....takes a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge amount of time and brain power......and all the while you still have to earn to support yourself and maybe family.

No wonder it is 7 years.....I am surprised it isn't longer!!

krang · 11/12/2007 14:37

You're being totally unreasonable regarding the GP training - of course they need all that training, they're highly skilled professionals - but completely reasonable regarding the utterly pointless and time-consuming NHS bureaucracy. Which is not your GP's fault. Why not start a new thread called 'Am I being unreasonable to hate pointless and time-consuming NHS bureaucracy?'

NorthernLurkerwithastarontop · 11/12/2007 14:41

The NHS isn't on it's knees actually - it's full of highly trained people doing the most difficult and responsible of jobs. Your GP needs to see you so he can be sure he is referring you for investigations you need and understand.
And as for complaining about paying to park - yes it can be a big cost but look at the bigger picture - if any or all of my three daughters had been born early the NHS would have coughed up the money for special care, all the drugs under the sun, highly specialised care...if I get knocked over by a lorry on my way to school this afternoon the NHS will pin my leg back together free of charge.....if my husband needs a kidney trabsplant - the NHS will pay. I pay my NI and get out so, so much more than I put in. YABU

Original poster
Swedes2Turnips1 · 11/12/2007 14:42

I don't need to see the GP or the phlebotamist so no I don't need them to come to my house. I just need a nurse to take some blood from my arm and send it off to the lab. Anyway, I have just discovered that I can have this test done privately - at a walk in clinic nearby (and they are open in the evenings - so no need to drag the little ones with me) and they have free parking. And there is no need to see a GP but they send the results back to you with a copy to your GP. Bargain at £32

OP posts:
Original poster
Swedes2Turnips1 · 11/12/2007 14:44

Krang - I agree. I have nothing against GPs personally. I just can't stand the bureaucracy and the way they say "Yes it's crap but that is how it is".

OP posts:
macdoodle · 11/12/2007 14:46

And if the result is abnormal.who will explain to you the implications, prescribe the medication, follow you up make sure you have the appropriate test etc etc...oh of course you are so clever and well trained you can do it all yourself....
YABsooooooU it is scary!
I takes much longer than 7 years to be a GP - 6 years medical training/school, 1 year as HO (now 2 as FY), then if lucky straight into GP training (minimum 3 years)...so more like at least 10....

walkinginawinterBundleland · 11/12/2007 14:48

swedes I bet your GP is breathing a sigh of relief. s/he can get back to the bureacracy/helping the sick.

ivykaty44 · 11/12/2007 14:49

My best friends son was knocked down by a car last Monday - He had a free ride in an ambulance, free treatment for several hours at one hospital, another free ride in an ambulance and then a free bed (several nights) then six hours of surgery again this was free, followed by free food for his stay in hospital and considerably more things which were all free.

He is going to come home this week - and because the surgeon was trained for 7 years guess what HE IS ALIVE way hay

Original poster
Swedes2Turnips1 · 11/12/2007 14:49

NorthernLurker - I have just had an email from my brother in law (a GP) he said this: I agree it is a pain to not be able to have the tests done at the same time ? this is because GPs are under-resourced to provide this. Overall it costs the NHS more (because of double handling) but as the budgets are separate this never gets fixed ? it?s crap, I agree!!

The thing is - it's crap for the patient and crap for the not infinite NHS resources.

OP posts:
macdoodle · 11/12/2007 14:55

Yes but thats not what you said in your OP...in one breathtaking over riding statement - you disparaged every hard working caring well trained GP in this country

Original poster
Swedes2Turnips1 · 11/12/2007 14:56

So my new question is this. Why can you pay to have the test done privately without seeing a GP but you can't have it done on the NHS without seeing a GP, not even as an option? They are all come under the same GMC.

OP posts:
macdoodle · 11/12/2007 14:59

Well you could in my practice but I would like to at least talk to you to make sure you understood what you were having done, why and the implications for treatment and follow up...but hey ho what do I know or care!
I would not be all that impressed if you then pitched up with an abnormal test result which I had not requested expecting your GP to then manage!!

Spockster · 11/12/2007 15:06

But macdoodle, we both know that you would still see the person with the abnormal result that you hadn't requested, and that you would then go on to provide full follow-up and any necessary treatment at the expense of the NHS and your own sanity.
Another example of the 24-hour-a-day-pizza-delivery service the NHS is expected to be these days.

manchita · 11/12/2007 15:11

Because as a private patuient you are paying for the time and service. Private practices are businesses and therefore need your custom irregardless of whether or not they believe you need them.
NHS doctors have to be more specific as they cannot waste money on a variety of unnecessary tests.
My GP is wonderful- he has treated every member of our family and a wide range of illnesses. He is professional, kind, reassuring and very knowlegeable. When my DP had a serious concern our GP made sure he was seen at the local hospital within hours.
I can't believe he only studied for 7 years!