Thank god we don’t live in Sweden. AIBU?

[sw1v]

I was just reading in another thread that in Sweden, you are basically forced to send your babies into day care settings at the age of 1. Apparently 50% of 1 year olds are in full- time nurseries (very long days inc. parents’ commutes) and 95% by the time they are 2! Plus (unlike in the U.K.) there is apparently no minimum ratio for staff to children.

But what if you are a mother who simply doesn’t want to do this (or father)? I personally, would hate this. So how is it acceptable for ‘the state’ to be interfering in people’s personal spheres and family lives by making this ‘the societal norm.’ Is it because they are a high tax society and want more tax? Is this it? Well, it seems like an infringement on personal liberties to me (without wanting to sound too dramatic).

AIBU?

[quote whippetmug]@FatCatThinCat You moved from just outside of London to the middle of nowhere in Sweden and you think the two are comparable? You could have moved to quite a few places in the UK and found a large house for the same price as a 2 bed terrace located just outside London or didn't you know?
I moved from Glasgow to Stockholm I can tell you nothing was cheaper in Sweden - miserable bloody place and people in the winter - they bunker down and wait it out - so depressing, done it once never again![/quote]
Ah - yes well Stockholm can be pretty dismal because of the islands, sea and all of the wind that makes it feel colder

You want to get further North where daycare goes sledging, cross country skiing and skating on the lake

[quote Winterlights1]@whippetmug

I moved from Glasgow to Stockholm I can tell you nothing was cheaper in Sweden - miserable bloody place and people in the winter - they bunker down and wait it out - so depressing, done it once never again!

Stockholm is a beautiful city, however I would not want to live there either. We go to Scotland at least once a year, absolutely love it. Can’t wait to go back when possible.[/quote]
It certainly wins the beauty contest - on the surface - but everything about the place is hostile and suspicious. Most miserable year of my life but I knew if I could endure Sweden I could endure anything!

@sw1v

I’m not slagging off Sweden fgs. I’m just saying (if these stats are true) thank god I don’t feel pressured to have my kids in full-time day care at the age if 2. I mean, fair enough if people want to or need to do this (that’s personal choice), but 95% is pretty much all babies and surely, if this is the case, you would feel like a societal weirdo just having your own children at home. At age 2!

Working in Sweden is very much seen as part of your identity. You aren't forced to work and can be a SAHM if you want. You don't have to put them in daycare but most choose to because they want to work and daycare is good. They work fewer hours per week on average and have a better work life balance. Sweden values BOTH parents being able to spend quality time with their children.

No one is forced to do anything.

[quote whippetmug]@FatCatThinCat You moved from just outside of London to the middle of nowhere in Sweden and you think the two are comparable? You could have moved to quite a few places in the UK and found a large house for the same price as a 2 bed terrace located just outside London or didn't you know?
I moved from Glasgow to Stockholm I can tell you nothing was cheaper in Sweden - miserable bloody place and people in the winter - they bunker down and wait it out - so depressing, done it once never again![/quote]
Artistic licence. I'm an hour outside of Gothenburg. We now live in the town and my DH commutes into G. 3 bed detached house with massive wrap around garden cost us £50k (20k for the one in the woods) There's nothing comparable in the UK.

[quote mugandspoon]@ArthurTudor, Sweden has been very, very socialist, to the point that I now see some 60-80s policies as more communist than socialist.

The whole foundation of the country was to build a communal society, to educate democratic people and to ensure that everyone had a chance to be part of society. Education was extended massively in the 1960s, one group that benefited a lot was people who had not been given a chance to study when they were young - adult ed was very, very big. Community cohesion was a massive thing. Sweden was an ethnically very homogeneous society: most people did the same thing, wanted the same thing etc. The difference in salaries between best paid and worst paid was much lower than in most other countries.

Since the 90s, things have changed a lot. A very large number of immigrants (I think about 20 % of the current population were born abroad, or have parents who were born abroad) in the 1990s, tied with a financial crisis, led to massive pressure on the systems and councils cut down a lot. A changing education system, where publicly funded free schools opened, led to an increasingly segregated school system. Marketisation and new public management led to a lot of changes.

The difference in income and life opportunities have increased massively. The social democratic party (left wing) has lost a lot of support - they received 50 % of the votes a few times, and 'normally' around 40 %, but over the past few elections they've been on 28-31 %. The right-wing has changed too, with a populist immigrants-out party now being the third biggest party (about 18 % of the votes).

People's circumstances are now very different compared to earlier. This has led to a weaker support for 'community' and resourceful people increasingly stress 'my rights, my choice' in a way that was unheard of 40 years ago. The election next year will be very interesting - views are much more polarised than they 'used to be' and the proposals for how to fix the issues are very different.

One issue is the rise in crime and gang related crime. Over the past year there's been more than one shooting a day on average, mainly between gangs, in deprived areas, mainly consisting of 2nd generation immigrants. It is easy to see that this leads to more segregation.[/quote]
Very interesting. Thank you for taking the time to respond. The polarisation of views seems to have swept across the West over the last 20 years or so - interesting to see this has been the case in a predominately LW country too.

@whippetmug where in Sthlm did you live and for how long? Next time, go elsewhere. It’s like London can be so beautiful but also so depressing (at least those years I lives there). Probably the same in most places.

Don’t be silly OP.

@whippetmug I include Glasgow in the sometimes depressing bit. 😅

[quote Winterlights1]@whippetmug where in Sthlm did you live and for how long? Next time, go elsewhere. It’s like London can be so beautiful but also so depressing (at least those years I lives there). Probably the same in most places.[/quote]
Lived outside one of the Royal Palaces, didn't have much choice I was there studying at the Stockholm University Should have gone to Lund or Uppsala. Was meant to stay for a year but I doubled up my courses and escaped early and went to live in Asia for the summer.

[quote Winterlights1]@whippetmug I include Glasgow in the sometimes depressing bit. 😅[/quote]
I found the Glaswegians to be hilarious...full of chat and banter. It rained nearly every fecking day - but it didn't matter.

Scandinavians have more family time. We lived in Norway for two years. We would all be home by 4:30 pm and have dinner and then do activities in the evening. In London DH were like passing ships in the night. Still wouldn’t give up my career though. Never ever we made it work.

I would love to live in Scandinavia

@whippetmug if you get the chance again, go to Lund. It’s absolutely brilliant (even though I wouldn’t choose to live there either). There are so many nice places, smaller towns or even villages.

@sw1v

Well fair enough, I should have checked the exact stats before I posted. But I thought someone in here might know about this and explain if or why it’s true. And I am asking AIBU. This is the point!

Did you listen to posters from Denmark or who have lived in Denmark @sw1v? Because they lve answered your question.

Nit what you think it is basically.

@whippetmug

I agree. We prefer Edinburgh though.

@DressedUpAtAnIvy

Where did you read this, Xenophobia Today?

My favourite comment on here for a long time.

@Hemskis

I'm Swedish and this is not true. Childcare is good quality and subsidied by the government to enable you to work. If you are unemployed you are entitled to a certain number of hours. Nursery hours are restricted to your work hours so you can't pay extra to have some free time. Childcare staff are well educated. Parental leave is excellent and often shared by both parents and children generally don't attend nursery when younger than a year.

You can be a stay at home mum if you like, noone will stop you, but it's not a common choice.

Thank you for being a true voice!

I don’t know where some people get their bloody rubbish information from.

It’s interesting to get a range of views

I don’t know much about Sweden and haven’t been, there is an excellent hard hitting series on Netflix though set there

Yes I know not the same but touches on immigration etc

[quote Winterlights1]@whippetmug

I agree. We prefer Edinburgh though.[/quote]
You know what the Scots say? - it's full of English people and that wasn't seen as a good thing! My flatmate used to call it Englandburgh! I'm neither Scottish or English.

Lunch wise, here is one example of the average lunch served at Swedish nurseries. Included in the £90 a month fee.

instagram.com/fsk_nyckelpiganskok?utm_medium=copy_link

@mugandspoon That is an excellent summary. I have only lived in Sweden for a few years, but that chimes with pretty much everything I have heard & read since I have moved here. I think that overseas there is still much an assumption that Sweden is some socialist state, and I think in some areas state provision of services is great (like childcare). However, I was quite surprised to have to pay for a GP visit, let alone the outragous cost for seeing a dentist. I don't know if that has always been the case or if that has been introduced more recently?

[quote Winterlights1]@whippetmug if you get the chance again, go to Lund. It’s absolutely brilliant (even though I wouldn’t choose to live there either). There are so many nice places, smaller towns or even villages.[/quote]
It's been a long time since I lived in Sweden as a poor impoverished student - even with a generous Erasmus Grant. I want to go back if only to face my demons, to change my perspective, I have lived in 6 different countries for extensive periods in my life but my year in Sweden was hideously awful - I've never felt so uncomfortable in my own skin, so unwelcome, so foreign and so lonely it nearly broke me. I didn't take it personally - every other foreign student was going through the same thing.

[quote Alaimo]@mugandspoon That is an excellent summary. I have only lived in Sweden for a few years, but that chimes with pretty much everything I have heard & read since I have moved here. I think that overseas there is still much an assumption that Sweden is some socialist state, and I think in some areas state provision of services is great (like childcare). However, I was quite surprised to have to pay for a GP visit, let alone the outragous cost for seeing a dentist. I don't know if that has always been the case or if that has been introduced more recently?[/quote]
£15 to see a GP in 1995!

@Alaimo Thank you :-) Yes, Sweden has changed a lot.

You've always paid to visit a doctor (not nurse), but there's an annual cap of about £80 per year - if you only go once or twice you won't get there, but nobody pays more than that. Children's visits are now free - has been the case for 6-8 years or so (new government 2014 I'm thinking, or might it have been earlier...).

Dentists have always been free, but they are good ;-) loads of Swedish dentists in London, surprised by the conveyor belt type dentistry they do there - good practice for later but nothing they want to continue doing :-) (And it is easy to find a dentist!)

Children go for free to the dentist of course, used to be until 20, it's now increased to 22 (21?).

I'm in two minds about paying to visit the doctor. I'm used to the English system now, so find it strange, but it makes my blood boil when I see the sign in my surgery 'last month only 82 % of people turned up for their appointments...'. Might fewer people skip appointments if they had to pay a small part of the cost?

Having reflected on this thread I have to admit its really provoked me. OP you are goady and obtuse and appear to completely lack any judgement.