Stop teaching child that it’s okay to refer to someone’s skin colour

[CannotThinkOfName]

Calling someone - a random person you don’t know - black is racist. I don’t care if your personal friend or your family member or someone else you’re close to doesn’t mind being referred to like this because they’re speaking for themselves as individuals.

Pointing out someone by skin colour is rude at best and at worst a form of racism. This is because

1. Skin colour that I was born with is brown.
2. Skin colour that I was born with does not define anyone. It doesn’t define your traits, characteristics, hobbies, goals, ambitions or anything else that truly defines who a person is.
3. It’s a form of racial harassment to start bothering someone at random and bringing up their race and colour for no real reason and singling them out by it.

I’ve seen people say there’s nothing wrong with their child referring to people by skin because they are just “saying what they see”. This is wrong because as a child, I never ever saw myself as “black” or described myself “black”. This is taught as a way to refer to people, it’s not simply a child “saying what they see”.

Please stop teaching your child that it’s okay to refer to people that you don’t know this way. If you do know someone and they’ve told you to call them black then that’s their choice as an individual. They don’t speak for anyone else but themselves.

If you don’t know someone’s name, - just ask them what their name is and call them by their actual name. Not “that black girl” or “the black woman” or “that black lady”.

@HeronLanyon

I’m assuming op you would think a black child describing herself or indeed a black sibling would be being racist ? Internalised?

I’ve never seen this before. However, people can refer to themselves as whatever they like, what they can’t do is insist that no one else would have issues with it.

It reminds me of someone using the N word and then stating that it was okay because their black friend said they could. Well they’re friend might have given them permission to use that word but that’s only their friend, not anyone else.

well i am unlikely to come across you in everyday life op so i will carry on the way i have been, like most people on this thread!!!!

if we meet you then we know what not to say....simple!!

Skin colour is genetic, though - in the same way as eye colour. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_skin_color#:~:text=Differences%20in%20skin%20color%20among,to%20the%20sun%2C%20or%20both.

@WorraLiberty, no I don’t live in London

My daughter was born with one hand. To be precise she has "congenital amputation defect of left arm between elbow and wrist".

If she's writing it on a form, she puts that.

When she was lost at Legoland, the first thing I told them was she was missing her hand as that makes her easy to pick out (and they made every child leaving the park wave at them with both hands )

There are times when it's not appropriate to mention it. There are times when it's best to give the brief version of "missing her hand" and times when the full description is what's needed.

This is a similar situation.
It depends on what information is necessary.

@Throughabushbackwards

We had racial sensitivity training at our workplace just last week. The presenter, who was excellent, was a woman who said that she describes herself as "proudly, black". She went to great lengths to describe how she and other people she knows wish to "celebrate their blackness", not hide away from it.

Not saying you're wrong, OP, but clearly there are a range of feelings and opinions about this.

We had this too. For staff and kids. The guy insisted using black was fine, that all the euphemisms were ridiculous and possibly more offensive. He's black, just call him that. Then encouraged the pupils to do just so.

[quote CannotThinkOfName]@WorraLiberty, no I don’t live in London[/quote]
That much is clear.

@MrsColon Err... Did you see the post I was quoting? It mentioned Black lady, Chinese lady, Indian lady and Spanish lady. I'm saying the Chinese lady in the example quoted is Chinese, Indian is Indian and Spanish is Spanish. But the Black woman?

I'm not talking about assuming where random women are from.

You don't want people dictating how you are referred to, yet here you are dictating to other people.

The word bitch can never be compared to using the term black. Bitch has only negative connotations unless referring to dogs. Rappers using it doesn't't make it less so.

You keep contradicting yourself. Why are Blackmumsnet, Black lives matter and black history month acceptable to you?

I am pretty sure that black mumsnetters didn't campaign to get the board just so they could discuss hair styles

@Sofiegiraffe

I’ve never heard someone being described as white in a day to day situation. Whiteness is something that’s never used as a descriptor

The police use "IC1 male / female" to refer to a white man or woman in their descriptions.

It would be pretty stupid and not very helpful to use white as a descriptor in a crowd of white people.

Nobody mentions my race- mixed- over here, but if I go to Africa everyone calls me the equivalent of 'white girl' because that's how they pick me out, it's the most obvious feature over there. It's not an insult

[quote MidnightMeltdown]@themuttsnutts

Race exists as a concept, but is something that has been socially constructed, rather than a biological category. It is something that has been invented by peoples desire categorise.

People from certain parts of the world are more likely to have certain types of characteristics, but there is no gene which codes for 'race'.[/quote]
Exactly, race exists as a social concept but not biological. This is what I meant by “race is not real, it’s a made up thing”.

By making “black” something you can’t say surely it plants the seed that being black is something to be ashamed of or somehow lesser? A good friend of mine is black - she is more than happy being black. What she doesn’t like is when people can’t bear to say black as if they are doing her a favour by not mentioning it.

My black ex and his mates always used to laugh at how (white) people will in a really long winded way, try so hard to describe someone without using their skin colour, when by just saying the skin colour would have identified them immediately. It was a long standing joke so your view is not held by everyone.

Haven't read the entire thread, and whilst race is a social construct.... Sometimes a descriptor is needed...

If someone presents in hospital in a and e and a junior doctor is unsure of diagnosis etc and seeks phone support from a senior.... Knowing someone is black may help diagnosis...such as sickle cell anaemia. The person on the end of the phone has no idea and it is far far far more common in black communities....

There is a time and a place....surely?

@Srown i meant if the man was genuinely black skinned but ds said brown (he has done before)

This is ridiculous, I am mixed race black/white, my children’s father is black, he calls himself black, every black persons I know calls themselves black! Think you are in the minority here op.... most of my friends are black and when there is one white one she has definitely been referred to as the white one so 😬

I agrer, I dislike being described by my skin colour as privileged.

I'm sitting listening to Spotify and this popped up when I scrolled down.... What's your take on this, OP? This looks like the term "black" being used in a really positive context. Is this acceptable? Genuinely interested in your views.

@Batshittery

You don't want people dictating how you are referred to, yet here you are dictating to other people.

The word bitch can never be compared to using the term black. Bitch has only negative connotations unless referring to dogs. Rappers using it doesn't't make it less so.

You keep contradicting yourself. Why are Blackmumsnet, Black lives matter and black history month acceptable to you?

I am pretty sure that black mumsnetters didn't campaign to get the board just so they could discuss hair styles

I don’t know all the details about the black mumsnet section because I wasn’t actively involved in creating that section.

Black Lives Matter is the official name of an organisation and they chose to name it that. I’m not the founder of the organisation so I can’t tell you why they selected the name they did.

Black History Month wasn’t really a thing as it is now when I was in school so I’m not sure what is covered really.

@WorraLiberty

You tell me because like I said previously, I’ve never heard someone being described as white in a day to day situation. Whiteness is something that’s never used as a descriptor

Where do you live that you've never heard this?

Certainly not the London borough I live and work in. If you're pointing out the woman at the bus stop, who's stood in amongst a crowd of black women, of course you're going to refer to her as the white woman if you need to describe her

Same for me:

In parts of the London borough I live and work in it would be quite routine on a bus or in a shop for me to be the only white person in there. I went to an aerobics class for nearly a decade where I was one of two white people and the teacher and other people in the class would routinely refer to us as "the white girls". There was no racist intent here and no offence taken whatsoever it was just a statement of fact.

I appreciate that whiteness in a white majority country is not the same thing as blackness and there is potential for offence which comes with the history so its not an exact analogy. But its an over-simplification to say all uses of black as an adjective by white people have racist intent.

Okay. Then that's what he sees. I think it's fine. It would be fine the other way round too (if he has dark brown skin and the child sees black). I thought you were the one correcting him to say race when he was talking about the skin colour he sees @MintyGreenDream

@WorralLiberty
Exactly. Well spotted.
Also there is a thread in BMN presently where we are discussing describing ourselves and race terminology. All quite friendly, different views on there. But it's a safe space where goady feckers get short shrift.
The OP hasn't posted there. IYSWIM. ( No obligation to, just obviously the OP is working to a different agenda )

Calling people black is learned behaviour

You're right, brown is what the skin colour is, not black. So is calling someone brown as a descriptor ok?
White people don't actually have white skin either.

Around here (London), 'black' would be a fairly poor identifier in many cases.

I imagine for people who live in areas of the county where it's a good identifier, it must get very wearing always to be referred to as the 'black' one. "Oh, this is Louise, she likes gardening", "Oh, Sam is the one who's a lawyer".
"Oh Anna, she's the black one".