My daughters needy friend is actually her "lover" just turned 14/ sleepovers have actually been something "else"

[Daughterpanic]

I am in shock.

DD has a very sweet lovely but extremly needy friend due to friends family dynamics, think not with her dm etc her dm is depressed it upsets friend.
I had a lot of time for this friend shes very sweet but I have been concerned about her being needy.
I have also been worried that DD seems to be spending every waking moment with this friend talking etc and not wanting to do stuff with us.
I asked to check her phone last night on the spot and i have found out they are in a relationship, its very intense and its always the friend being dpressed or sad, or moody or angry, and my dd calming her down.

they talk about lying in each others arms all night - kissing.

I am so upset she is literally just 14 and if ths was a boy no way would I allow sleep overs. I am not sure what to do now.

If I ban it - they will go closer together, but they cant have bloody sleep overs, I am horrified

[Viviennemary]

Now you know the truth you should ban sleepovers. In any case the friend sounds far too needy. Not a healthy relationship at that age IMHO.I agree your DD is not mature enough to deal with this kind of pressure.

[Hemingwayscats]

My experience of teen girls in secondary school is that having a best friend that you call your girlfriend is very popular. It's positively trendy to label yourself as bi sexual, lesbian, trans, pan sexual etc even though most of these girls do not understand their own sexuality or take it any further than holding hands and kissing.

Noticed this too but in year 5/6 so a lot younger. My DD’s seem to think it’s cool to be lesbian and don’t seem to understand what they’re even saying half of the time. They can’t just be friends with people, it has to spill over into a ‘relationship’. It just seems to be the ‘in thing’ right now. Had many conversations with them about it but I think they think I’m a dinosaur. It was the same at secondary school for me though, everyone claimed to be bisexual but most weren’t.

Anyway, I definitely wouldn’t allow sleepovers anymore. It has to be similar to a boy staying over, they can’t legally consent to sex regardless of their sex.

[smoko]

How times have thankfully changed. I remember being called a lesbian or a "shim" at school was an insult

Still confused why a 14 year old is being referred to as a "lover" though

[shylatte]

I had an extremely needy friend at a similar age, albeit minus the relationship thing. Looking back my own mental health/wellbeing was entirely dependant on her mood - it was a very unhealthy dynamic. My DM forced me to spend less time with her, and although I initially felt distraught about it it was a huge relief for me. OP you could be doing your DD a favour by scaling back their time spent together.

[Echobelly]

In the first instance, this needs a discussion about boundaries, and a good feminist lesson about not having to be responsible for this other girl's feelings.

I doubt there's anything sexual beyond cuddling and kissing going on at the moment, unless messages suggest otherwise, and that's not a problem to me and I don't think really is to you, but the emotional pressure on your DD is - it's not a healty dynamic and she needs to know that. She needs to know what a healthy relationship looks like and whatever her sexuality you don't want her first experience to suggest that it's all about propping up a volatile partner.

[Xiaoxiong]

I don't think it's hard to ban sleepovers without revealing that OP knows about the relationship.

"Look DD, your friend is in a tough spot right now and I know you want to help, but she needs real help from people who have proper training and whose job it is to help her. Neither you nor I have that professional expertise or knowledge, and we might even make things worse even if we mean well. Also it's not your job or responsibility to make her or anyone else happy. However it is my job as your parent to keep you safe and well and to have a good night's sleep as you're still growing, and have a variety of friends and experiences. You have to put on your own lifejacket before helping others, etc etc. I think you need some space to be yourself now you're at a new school, making new friends etc so let's cool off on the sleepovers and phone calls after 9pm for now, and I'm going to contact Friend's responsible adult/teacher/pastoral head to discuss how we adults can best help Friend."

[Hankunamatata]

m.youtube.com/watch?v=DmbTqFH4x0w
This a great video on co ersive control. It uses gender neutral cartoon characters

[PlanetMJ]

I wonder if it might be worth considering being honest with her about your viewing of the messages and your understanding that their relationship is more than platonic friendship. It provides you with an opportunity to reassure her that you are completely supportive of her sexuality and choices in that respect, now and in the future. But it opens the door for a conversation about how any relationship moving from friends to something more adds an extra layer of intensity and complexity.

At the moment, it sounds like they are in the depths of a very insular "us against the world" type of situation that your daughter might not be ready for. Taking away the need for secrecy about it being more than friends could mean she feels more able to confide in you honestly about how she is feeling. Your acceptance and acknowledgment of her having these sexual feelings, (maybe try and find a less cringy way of phrasing that!) Could be the thing that reassures her she can be open with you if she is finding aspects of the relationship difficult.

You could also explain that due to the age of consent, you feel you need to put the sleepovers on pause for the moment, in the same way as you would with any of her friendships that become sexual, male or female.
You could talk about how you are keen to support her in supporting her friend and ask how you can do that. She might be relieved to have someone to share her worries with who will listen non-judgementally (which might be hard if she tells you worrying things). If it feels she could welcome the suggestion, could involving her friend more in family activities be possible as a way to reduce the pressure on her and give her friend some "normal" family life which she is lacking.

[Daughterpanic]

" my beautiful hot baby, I love miss you, i couldn't help getting passionate"

Mum said we a re to intense " if she only knew!"

I miss your kisses..

[GoingOutOutNEVER]

Same as others said treat it as you have done a boy girl relationship, no sleepovers, bedroom door open when visits happen.
Be supportive of your daughter, this may fizzle out like so many teen relationships do

[TaraR2020]

If its just kissing and cuddling then this is normal for her age group. A talk about being emotionally ready for anything more would be useful though, especially if you think your dd might feel obligated to go along with more if her friend is that intense.

I would, however, be more concerned with the emotional side of this relationship. It's not uncommon at this age for friendships to be incredibly needy and intense on one side and I'd be looking to enforce some boundaries to give your dd more space.

Be careful not to be seen as the 'evil' parent coming between them. So a supportive but firm approach is what I'd go for here.

A chat with her school is also appropriate I think, for both their sakes and so they can keep an eye on your dd.

You can help your dd support her friend while putting in boundaries that protect her mh. Look to empower her not discipline.

[Daughterpanic]

@PlanetMJ

I'm also agree with that, my dd is an extremely logical person very balanced.

But with this situation it's a bit boiled frog.

She also probably won't see her self as being adversly affected.

[SmileyClare]

I think PlanetMJ makes some good points there about acknowledging this relationship, and removing the secrecy. And being open about your opinion of same sex relationships, the age of consent and why you're putting some boundaries in place.

It's very difficult to get it right parenting teens. I do sympathise!

[MarshmallowSwede]

First off it’s not homophobic to not allow your child to have sleepovers where sex might happen. Just because a child is gay or lesbian doesn’t mean they get to do whatever they want and can have their girlfriend or boyfriend sleep over. Being homosexual doesn’t give a child free reign. Calm down.

[Daughterpanic]

I'm sure the other girls schools know because she doesn't live with her parents

[itsgettingwierd]

@SmileyClare

My dd is stuck with depression, anxiety, questioning her sexuality, whether she is non binary

I'm so sorry.
I don't know what the answer is but it's so difficult for teens now. There's so much pressure for them to identify as something, label themselves and announce their sexuality or their stance on gender.. It's disastrous for their mental health. Most teenagers haven't worked out who they are yet and don't have the emotional maturity for all this shit.

Totally agree.

I've been saying this for ages.

We've almost gone backwards with gender stereotyping by now asking kids as young as 5 to assign them self a gender or as non gendered.

What ever happened to being yourself? Wearing what makes you comfy and enjoying what makes you happy?

Why the need the define that and label yourself as something because of it?

[TotallySuper]

@EishetChayil

It's actually pretty homophobic to assume there will be homophobia on a thread about a same-sex relationship.

Spot on!

[onelittlefrog]

If you wouldn't allow sleepovers with a boy at that age then you also shouldn't allow it with a girl she's in a relationship with.

It's not really any different other than the pregnancy aspect.

[inferiorCatSlave]

@XelaM

I'm a straight woman, but have since my youth been involved with guys similar to your daughter's girlfriend- the miserable sort with lots of personal problems and I have always been to sane one and tried to "save" them. Honestly, your daughter will get fed up with her at one point. It always reaches that point. But the more you tell her how toxic this girl is, the more defiantly she will try to prove you wrong by staying with her behind your back (although deep down she will know you're right)

One of our University friends - a guy - got sucked into a relationship like this he ended up being kicked of his post graduate course and having a mental breakdown. He's never really recovered - he's struggled to hold down any job long term and hasn't had any serious relationships since.

DD1 had a toxic friendship early secondary school years - we helped her see not rushing to answer phones and saying no was fine - unfortunately it did get nasty though school was supportive. We found and got DD1 in an outside group - which helped her see it's wasn't her and her school friendship group massively shifted anyway with options.

Though we had an issue this summer with another friend - bad homelife was trying to stop the night - I don't think DD1 was actually that keen and DH and I though bad idea - so we went through the options friend did have - which did not include walking off into the night with no clear destination. It got sorted.

In both cases I felt sorry for the girls who home life wasn't great but showing DD1 is fine to have boundaries was also important.

I'd stop sleepovers with anyone for a while and try for outside groups - some are started back up - to try and give her some more social confidence. I wouldn't call this girl toxic but focus on general boundaries and saying no to thinsg we are not happy about - have phonse downstairs at night for everyone.

[lanthanum]

It sounds as if the biggest concern is that this relationship is too intense, too dependent on each other - and that would be the case whether or not it's sexual. The problem is that the trigger for deciding action is needed this is the discovery that it is a sexual relationship.

I think if you wade in and say "no more sleepovers", then that will be taken as homophobia, whether or not it is. Perhaps it's better to take a different tack to reduce the amount of time spent together, rather than targetting the sleepovers - maybe no sleepovers during termtime, because of making sure she's had enough sleep for school. Ditto phone in bedroom. (It's not that she necessarily needs the sleep, but there needs to be time when she is away from the demands of the friend - but she's not going to recognise that.)

Presumably as she knew you checked her phone, she knows you know, and so separating the two issues is going to be difficult.

[GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing]

I’ve realised as a parent of a gay early teen this is a minefield for them too

I agree with sleepovers and treating in the same way as if she had a boyfriend.

But also for them as it’s hard to draw the line between “you’re my friend” and “you’re my girlfriend” as it’s often blurred if they’re within the same friendship group.

[Killeditwithkisses]

Tools are what you need here op. Arm your daughter with information and knowledge about what healthy relationships look like, what toxic relationships are, and how boundaries are important. Talk to her about the difference between enabling and helping.

The reality is that your daughter feels like she has to help her friend, and she is doing that in the only way she knows how (by being a crutch). Give your daughter the knowledge to navigate this situation herself with your support and guidance. Help her to help her friend in a safe manner. Your daughter really sounds like she's trying to do the right thing.

I know its difficult to give a shit about the friend right now. But you need to build trust and understanding with your daughter and part of that is understanding her perceived obligations to her friend. (If your daughter thinks that you don't understand she will not take your advice).

I would ban sleepovers but explain to your daughter why this needs to happen. Other than that focus on building trust with your daughter and on open communication. Harsh controls and clamp downs may only drive a wedge between you and your daughter at this stage - which is not going to be helpful in the long run.

I'd leave the sexuality thing out of it, it's a red herring as you have said. Talk to her about it at another time but do gently let her know its not your worry (healthy relationships are).

It must seem like a nightmare at the moment OP but try to take a calm approach. Teenagers are volatile....good luck!

[Echobelly]

I think @Xiaoxiong is spot on with a good response - make it clear it's not that a relationship is forbidden but she needs time and space and rest and not to use up all her energy on friend/girlfriend.

Also maybe have a chat about consent as well - DC (13) (non-binary, all the rage etc) had a girlfriend during lockdown and obviously nothing physical happened then (and they broke up amicably over summer) but had it got to a stage where they might get physical I would have had a discussion, as GF was in the year below at school, so in my sense my child would be the 'mature' one. So I would have talked to them about the fact that even between two girls/AFAB people, things can still happen which one or both parties regrets (as happened with some friends of mine) because they weren't emotionally ready.

[chocolatecerealcampingbrekkie]

It sounds like a phase. You could speak to the safe guarding person at your dds school. As a parent I would be very concerned too.
Also she's aged under 16 so no more sleep overs until she is of legal age.

[Daughterpanic]

They are at different schools now.