My daughters needy friend is actually her "lover" just turned 14/ sleepovers have actually been something "else"

[Daughterpanic]

I am in shock.

DD has a very sweet lovely but extremly needy friend due to friends family dynamics, think not with her dm etc her dm is depressed it upsets friend.
I had a lot of time for this friend shes very sweet but I have been concerned about her being needy.
I have also been worried that DD seems to be spending every waking moment with this friend talking etc and not wanting to do stuff with us.
I asked to check her phone last night on the spot and i have found out they are in a relationship, its very intense and its always the friend being dpressed or sad, or moody or angry, and my dd calming her down.

they talk about lying in each others arms all night - kissing.

I am so upset she is literally just 14 and if ths was a boy no way would I allow sleep overs. I am not sure what to do now.

If I ban it - they will go closer together, but they cant have bloody sleep overs, I am horrified

[Justilou1]

@Daughterpanic - I understand your feelings. My eldest DD came out a couple of years ago to me, but will not share this with DH, and wants me to protect her privacy. While I understand this, I also feel torn there too. (It wouldn’t be an issue for him either, btw, and they are close.) I also knew for quite some time before she told me. It’s hard holding that part back so that your child can feel emotionally safe coming to you in their own time….

BUT…. you have two other things happening, and given the current circumstances, I don’t think you can really wait. 1) Your DD is involved with an emotionally damaged young woman, and the cost to her MH and emotional well-being is quite obvious to you. She is too young and inexperienced to recognise the control this girl is exerting and thrdamage it can do. As her mother, it’s your job to help her through this and teach her how to establish healthy boundaries.
2) You have discovered the level of intimacy involved by going through her phone. Whether or not she is aware of this (I somehow imagine that she MUST be), it will be construed as an invasion of privacy (regardless of the rules of usage) when/if you bring it up.
I think you need to really spell out to DD she is not a social worker. This girl has been removed from the dangerous/damaging situation and has the support of adults around her now. These adults genuinely care about her and are being led by qualified counselors, etc. Of course it is going to take time for her to adjust to her new support support system and learn to trust these people, but maybe your DD’s level of involvement may actually be undermining this girl’s treatment and healing process.
(Discuss enmenshment, etc.)

[girlywhirly]

I agree with PP, your DD needs you to set some boundaries. Being on devices for hours, constantly available to the girlfriend, not permitted by her to have a life of her own. She must be tired with all the neediness, drama, giving constant attention. She should be having fun, with no more worry than getting her homework in on time. Make yourself the ‘bad’ guy over sleepovers, so that DD can honestly say ”Mum says no.” I think once your DD makes new friends she won’t be as available and the less time she has the girlfriend will become annoying and sidelined. But I do think you need to facilitate it. If it comes to it, you could help her block the girlfriend if she becomes a real nuisance.

[justmaybenot]

@Daughterpanic

Yes but it's the secrecy??

If for instance she had a boy over (not to sleep) I would have said.. Oh a friend? Or something more perhaps? And she may have said which and talked about it..
I strongly dislike how this has become a secret!

I feel side swiped.

It's the hidden element.

For the first time ever she's hidden something and behaved in a sneaky way and I'm not happy about it.
The problem is now, even if I don't allow sleep overs there is nothing to stop them going into girls room "watching" Netflix and smooching is there??? Or going further??

There is no reason to hide this from me in terms of her saying, mum I like am attracted to blah "she told me ages ago, well before lock down she wasn't sure if she liked a girl at school as in fancy her. I didn't really say anything at all, but my reaction same as if she'd said mum I think I like Henry...

She's normally honest and I'm concerned this is girl has also encouraged her to be sneaky.

Well it's quite a private and delicate thing I guess, and she's at an age where she might be more inclined to keep things a bit private from you, particularly this, and particularly if she and the girl have not publicly asserted that they're girlfriends.
Seriously OP, do your DD a favour and limit her time on her phone for starters. No matter how seriously involved she is with the other girl, she clearly needs your help in imposing some boundaries.

[Daughterpanic]

Yes but it's the secrecy??

If for instance she had a boy over (not to sleep) I would have said.. Oh a friend? Or something more perhaps? And she may have said which and talked about it..
I strongly dislike how this has become a secret!

I feel side swiped.

It's the hidden element.

For the first time ever she's hidden something and behaved in a sneaky way and I'm not happy about it.
The problem is now, even if I don't allow sleep overs there is nothing to stop them going into girls room "watching" Netflix and smooching is there??? Or going further??

There is no reason to hide this from me in terms of her saying, mum I like am attracted to blah "she told me ages ago, well before lock down she wasn't sure if she liked a girl at school as in fancy her. I didn't really say anything at all, but my reaction same as if she'd said mum I think I like Henry...

She's normally honest and I'm concerned this is girl has also encouraged her to be sneaky.

[justasking111]

Phones in bedroom here OH moans when his phone bleeping at a late hour. Well don't take it to bed. I don't. Ditto when out for a meal. WHY . I don't take mine to bed nor have it on the table when eating

[justmaybenot]

@Daughterpanic

She's got no one else to have one with at the moment she's in limbo

I've not mentioned sleepover yet but I did say to her girl is a vulnerable child and dd has to be really careful this girl doesn't start relying on her for emotional support etc and dd will make new fiends and this girl has to learn to make new fiends. And her family life can't get in the way of what this girl wants.

Dd
Is very good at the moment, which is why she has shocked me with this.
I've not implied I know anything about the sexual side at the moment.

Starting a physical relationship doesn't mean she's not 'good' OP!

[justmaybenot]

Again, why does your DD seem to be allowed so much time on her phone? Would suggest:

1. Cut your DD's screen time. I know other 14 yos who might be allowed just 30 minutes a day during the school week.
2. Tell your DD that friends - including this one - are welcome but you don't want any more sleepovers for a while.

See what happens. Sleepovers aren't a human right, and they often cause problems - not nec. of a sexual nature. I think you really need to step in and assert yourself a bit more.

[TheOccupier]

I would make a general family rule of no phones in bedrooms overnight, and no sleepovers for the time being. I think it may be a relief to your DD.

[Daughterpanic]

Lobster I think it'd got absolutely madly out of control in dd old school, it was so prevalent.
It wasn't low level.. So and so likes blah it was absolutely loads of stuff all the time.

It's extremely worrying. As I said I'm not too concerned but I can't imagine myself choosing what I am early on? Why this is pressure?

[logsonlogsoff]

If she knows that you occasionally check her phone ( we have this agreement with our eldest, as part of him having a phone, though rarely do it anymore) then nows the time to put yur hand up and sit down with DD and tell her that you know she and the girl are more than friends.
And then lay down some ground rules around sleeping in the same bed/room, any contact after a certain time at night - our DS leaves his phone off and downstairs after 8,30pm to 7am -, and talk to her about this girl's apparent issues,
Your poor DD could be stressed out by the neediness.

[Daughterpanic]

She doesn't fear what this girl will do (yet) but is always answering in response, because she's so needy where is my dd etc.

[Daughterpanic]

She's got no one else to have one with at the moment she's in limbo


I've not mentioned sleepover yet but I did say to her girl is a vulnerable child and dd has to be really careful this girl doesn't start relying on her for emotional support etc and dd will make new fiends and this girl has to learn to make new fiends. And her family life can't get in the way of what this girl wants.

Dd
Is very good at the moment, which is why she has shocked me with this.
I've not implied I know anything about the sexual side at the moment.

[logsonlogsoff]

You don’t need to ban all sleepovers _ just the ones with the girlfriend! I has sleepovers with both male and female friends when I was a teen. And they were just that - sleepovers.

[MangoIce]

@Daughterpanic have you spoken to her about unhealthy relationships yet? You say your Dd is withdrawn and tired and prioritises her gf because she fears what gf will do if she doesn’t reply quick enough. This isn’t normal - for adults or children.

[CanIPleaseHaveOne]

@Tilltheend99

Wow to the homophobic responses on here

You are NU to want them to not have sleepovers until age of consent and to discuss this with your daughter.

You are being unreasonable to try to separate them for being in a close relationship and both being female.

I think it’s natural to be shocked and want to get your head around it. You should talk with your daughter about the sleepovers but you should wait until you have calmed down and had a proper think before talking with her about her sexuality.

How you react to this could deeply effect your daughter for the rest of her life so take baby steps. I’m assuming you would ultimately want your daughter to be happy and to keep her in your life?

It’s also possible that this others girl has been depressed and having family problems because they are aware of her sexuality. If you see her as troubled do you really want to put your DD through similar?

Homophobic responses?

Are we reading the same thread?

[LobsterNapkin]

It's hugely prominnent in many schools now. In some cases the kids seem to feel that if you are not willing to be in a same sex relationship, it means you are a bigot.

There's a lot of pressure for girls to "know what they really are". And it's not benign as some seem to think, it gives rise to a lot of anxiety.

But OP - it sounds like you need to be restricting her phone time. Not just taking it at night, more like time limits, an hour or whatever seems right. She needs to be able to get some distance and do other things.

[Madwife123]

This situation is different as the relationship sounds controlling however to those posters saying no sleepovers etc. just wanted to add my experience as a lesbian.

My parents knew I was gay at 13. This meant no female sleepovers allowed, regardless of relationship or friend status as they never believed they were just friends. Likewise I wasn’t allowed my male friends to sleepover as boy/girl sleepovers are a no no.

I don’t know the easy answer but as a teen I was the only one in my friendship group never having it going to sleepovers and felt quite excluded. It made me regret telling my parents my sexuality.

[Sydendad]

I would be more concerned about the mental state of your daughter. There is clear evidence that people with emotional issues, esteem issues are much more susceptible to coercive, manipulative and controlling partners as one example. So what i am saying is that your daughter is getting drawn to her and to helping her out of her own mental and emotional issues. That with additionally budding sexuality makes me think she could really do with some private counceling.
You can't prevent her from having relationships, same sex or not, but you can support her and get her the mental support she needs.
Also i dont think you can stop them from seeing each other and i think you should indeed not enable sleepovers, but you should also not forbid anything as that will just lead to resistance and secrecy. You should support and create openness.

[justmaybenot]

It's got to be the point where I'm noticing because dd is tired, been up late talking to the girl, when I go in her room she's always talking to her, or texting her etc.
Family life is interrupting her relationship and the messages from this girl are... Have you finished dinner yet, when will you be back, oh no a day day out, contact me when your back.it seems relentless.

Have you tried limiting your DD's screen time? Sounds like the neediness is exacerbated by too much time on phones. Is there any way you can encourage your DD to confide in you about the nature of her relationship with this girl, even in a roundabout way? She might be relieved to do so.

[Justilou1]

Random typo at the end was supposed to be “deal with it.”

[Justilou1]

@Daughterpanic - My DD2’s friend group is going through something similar atm. There are about four girls who seem to control the entire narrative and it’s all about gender identity and sexuality with a massive sideline of mental health problems caused by “Nobody Understands Me”, “I’m Being Oppressed” and “If You Don’t Agree With Everything I Say, YOU’RE NOT WOKE”. Nobody can steer the subject elsewhere and the girls who want to extricate themselves from this group because it’s a) toxic and b) boring, are being followed everywhere they go by at least one of the four (Harbringers of Doom) who use coercive control tricks to herd them back. Yes, these four girls have had shit go down in their lives. That’s very sad. They are affecting the mental health of many others as a result. They are now on what seems to be a “Recruitment Drive” where they lovebomb their target for a few weeks and then start insisting that they are gay or bi and simply don’t know it or won’t admit it. They are actively bullying one girl who is vulnerable. She hasn’t walked home alone in over a month.
Speak to the other girl’s school. Let them discuss with her guardians. Let them ihowbit’snunhealthu.

[Phobiaphobic]

@bogeythefungusman

For those saying the sleepovers at the age of 13/14 are OK because there's no chance of pregnancy, what age would you consider too young?

Tbh, I don't think risk of pregnancy should be the only issue - I think children of this age are too emotionally immature to deal with intense romantic /sexual relationships.

100% agree with this. Sex ups the ante on emotions in a way many 13/14-year-olds are not yet ready to handle.

[Daughterpanic]

My dd BTW has been blissfully free of worrying about looks, she likes nice clothes but only recently started to shave her legs. No make up yet etc.
She's still so good, tells me she is going to the park or where she is, she's definitely at a different level of innonsence.

[Daughterpanic]

As strange as it may sound I'm not bothered about that right now
What I will say though is that in her all girls school it seemed to be an obsession, girls changing names, pro nouns, all declaring they were in relationshipS... It's was extremely prevalent.

I'm happy with whatever my dd wants to be but what I'm not happy about is this strange culture that seems so in your face?

[HikingforScenery]

@smoko

Also can I ask why in the thread title you've used the term "lover" ? why not just put GF?

Have they spoken about sex or was it more kisses & cuddles?

I wasn't allowed to sleep over at a boy's house until in my mid 20s, didn't stop me from having sex & I actually would have been safer had my parents not been so strict. Not saying you should drop all rules, but perhaps group sleepovers could be acceptable?

Why do you think you’d have been safer if your parents allowed you to bring boys home ( I’m assuming).

I thought children are usually protected with this approach but those that are hell bent on having sex will do it wherever they want.