To ask that people state age not school year when talking generally about children?

[clockover]

Please?

It would make things much easier for those of us who don't instantly know what Y4 etc is. I know how to convert it but I just think on a thread where it's not school related, but definitely age related, giving the child's age would be more appropriate.

“Works for the school year equivalent though”

It works for about 50% of the kids.

The other 50% would be in a different year group in England.

I much prefer the Scottish system.

Either way, one thread isn't going to suddenly change how people post

I was only asking. Tbh if the tables were turned I would absolutely take this on board. It makes no difference to the poster whether they say Y10 or the age of a child but you would think I was asking some people to donate a limb

Used to really bug me that people in the US would always refer to their school years in terms that left me utterly clueless about how old they were and now the habit has moved to the UK. Why anyone thinks school year is more important than age is beyond me.

I was nearly posting this myself tonight so thank you OP. Yes it is irritatingly England centric.

@SheWoreYellow yes I know. I've been agreeing with the OP but I simply responded to the pp who said that P4 was year 4 which it isn't in terms of year group, which is the only way you can compare as you cannot compare the two systems by age at all.

Yes the cut offs are different too which probably confuses. In NI you start school (P1) in the September of the school year after their fourth birthday up before 1st July. So if they turn 4 on 30th June, they’ll start P1 that September.

You start secondary school as “Year 8” the September after you turn 11.

AnyOld yes I always thought it's funny how Americans refer to their children as "my third grader" or whatever.
In the American books by Beverly Clearly there is a scene where the character of Ramona is annoyed that adults keep asking her "what grade are you in now?" when it was the summer holidays. To her she had just finished a grade but yet to start the next one so she wasn't in any grade at all.
(Ramona is my favourite book character ever!!)

@TheNoodlesIncident

It would be a lot simpler to just include both facts, surely that would cover all bases? Eg my DS (13) is in Year 9, he has an August birthday so will always be 13 throughout the entire school year blah blah.

I would perhaps mention that he is in Y9 because that means he is not expected to be considering what subjects he will do for GCSE, or similar relevant thing, but I wouldn't state what year he was in and not his age at all.

I do agree with OP that clarity is important, although some posters will still ask how old the child is even if you put it in the title as well as the opening post...

That again varies, though. Some schools do a 3 year KS4, so students pick their options in year 8 and start their GCSE course in year 9, with year 11 being a 'consolidation year'.

Oh and in NI some will just have turned 12 starting secondary school if born in July/August, but most will only be 11.

@SachaStark2

I can’t get excited about people using year groups, instead of ages. It doesn’t take long to work out that Year 1 is 5-6, and Year 13 is 17-18.

Presumably most of us here went through this school system ourselves, if raised in England or Wales, and the Scottish system isn’t massively different, either. Surely we all remember what the school years mean from when we went to school ourselves?!

You're assuming that everybody here is as young as you and knows the state sector (as not all private schools use it, either)

I know them due to a) having children and b) working in schools where it's used. And even on the computer software, it still lists the post 16 years as 6L and 6U, rather than Y12 and Y13.

Didn't get beyond the first reply where @GraceLace showed herself up for the exact type of England-centric bullshit expected on Mumsnet.

OP I completely agree.

@SachaStark2

I can’t get excited about people using year groups, instead of ages. It doesn’t take long to work out that Year 1 is 5-6, and Year 13 is 17-18.

Presumably most of us here went through this school system ourselves, if raised in England or Wales, and the Scottish system isn’t massively different, either. Surely we all remember what the school years mean from when we went to school ourselves?!

Well I'm mid 40s and went through the English school system and the current year system didn't exist until a few years after I left school! Back then it was 1st year juniors, 1st year seniors etc.

My DS is in year 3, which in my head is 1st year juniors. If someone says 'year 8' I have to stop and work out if it's primary or seniors, let alone what year it translates to in 'old money'!

I'm English, went to school in England and have a child at school in England - and I still have to stop and think. If somebody tells me about their 6yo child, I instantly know how old that child is - anywhere in the world!

I also get confused by the DD3 etc. thing: even if there is a 'correct' way of rendering it in the MN 'rules', enough people use both to mean either age or birth position that you just cannot know. Anything over about 7, you can have a very good guess that it's probably their age, but the lower numbers can be anybody's guess.

The birth order of a child is often completely irrelevant - e.g. "My Son hit me today" - so completely immaterial how many older or younger siblings he might have; but people will still refer to him as 'DS2'. If your 2yo son slapped you during a frustrated toddler tantrum, that's a completely different scenario in terms of seriousness from if your second son, aged 17, physically assaulted you when you refused to let him stay out until the early hours.

Whilst we're at it, can somebody please also start a campaign for shoe sizes in the UK to start at number one for a baby/tiny toddler's first pair and then keep on going right up to the top, beyond what Mark Labett's big brother might wear?! So much pointless checking and uncertainty when you order online from the kids' section and select a child's size 2 shoes - to reassure yourself that they are indeed going to send shoes for a primary school child and not for a tiny one. Who on earth ever decided that we needed to reach an arbitrary size number and then just start again?!

YADDDDDDDDDDDNBU

The year system introduced to England in the early 90s is a hell of a lot simpler than the range of regional variations that preceded it. Being born in the early 80s it's easier to convert to y2, y3 that didn't exist at that point rather than attempt to describe how I did two last years of infant school due to moving areas of different systems (then doing 3 years of juniors)

It's not that tricky to work out that some parts of the UK start yR, y1 onwards and some start from P1 with a slight difference of age distribution and greater age range.

If I talk about leaving my 10yo alone, it is relevant that he is y6 (P7 equivilent). He's being gradually prepared for the independence that is expected for secondary transition and is nearly 11. Quite different to a just-turned 10yo in y5. I could avoid all doubt and say he's 130 months old, but I know that really will blow MN's sensibilities

Well, I'm still just about young enough to have done (hypothetically) have a youngster and not be completely au fait yet with the numbering system (and that leaves aside foster, adoptive and grandparents etc. who may be older again) and I absolutely did not go through school with the current England & Wales numbering system even though I was educated in the state sector. We had 2 x R, 1, 2, 3 (actually called Class 1 to Class 6) in the Infants (no I don't quite know how it was organised, I was an infant!), and then 2 x Class 1, 2, 3, 4 (with teacher's initials as suffix) in the Middle School. At High School (which we called it, we didn't really say secondary school in usual conversation) it was 2nd year through to 5th year plus Lower 6th and Upper 6th (no 1st year secondary, in order to keep us in line with neighbouring authorities that went up from Middle School a year earlier). So based on that, I wouldn't have the foggiest.

(Actually I am familiar with the R-Y13 system, but I'm disagreeing with the PP who said surely you came through the system yourself or something similar.)

I think it was a reasonable request, the OP wasn't making a demand but just asking and explaining why. We get a lot of great contributions from across the 4 'home nations' and internationally, and I think that adding the age or approx age in brackets would be useful where school year is relevant, or the main topic, or just age when it's not really.

One thing I find a little confusing is when people write, say, DD3 (for their their third daughter - or is that their third child?) but then other posters use DD3 for their daughter aged 3. Usually you can get it from the context eventually but it can make things harder to understand and reply to initially. But maybe that's just me?

Typo, sorry - not have done just have (in the first sentence).

@Oblomov21

I often refer to year 7 or year 12 or whatever. It feels less exposing and slightly less outing.

I don't want to type what age my children are all the time. If feels too revealing. Yes I know people will know when I mention school year but if just feels a bit more hidden.

I was gonna say this next but went to watch Squid Game instead.

@LittleBearPad

Just add 4 for the youngest age and 5 for the oldest. If you can’t be arsed to do both sums just add 5.

This seems the most straightforward way if doing it...

Doesn't work in countries though where progression is based on success jn the relevant year though

I agree. So often you'll see a post where the person says "My DD Y 4 is doing so-and-so " , and many people respond along the lines of the DD being 4 years old . Age is a lot more appropriate .

Presumably most of us here went through this school system ourselves, if raised in England or Wales, and the Scottish system isn’t massively different, either. Surely we all remember what the school years mean from when we went to school ourselves?!

Er no, because when I went to school we weren't known by year numbers. Primary school went from Class 1 to Class 7; then secondary went from years 1 to 5; and Sixth Form used "upper and lower".

I never know what age a year 4 Is etc. I've long forgotten

I agree with the OP. In most situations, the age of the child is much more relevant than what year in school they are. And surely it's not always the case that, say, a child in year 6 is 10 or 11?

For the posters (youngsters, obviously) who commented that if you've gone through the UK system yourself you should automatically know what a particular year means, that's not true. I'm in my 40's and I went to school in England. There was no such thing as Year X then. It was infants, 1st year - 4th year juniors, 1st - 5th year seniors, and then sixth form. So it does take a minute to figure it out, which is frustrating when the post is nothing to do with school.

and the Scottish system isn’t massively different, either.

It really is though. We have a different government. We use different descriptors, age boundaries, curriculum, holiday periods and exam systems.

The UK is not a country, if you only want to talk about what goes on in your own country then you should state that at the beginning - if you want to include those in other countries then it makes sense to know what you're talking about.

@SachaStark2

I can’t get excited about people using year groups, instead of ages. It doesn’t take long to work out that Year 1 is 5-6, and Year 13 is 17-18.

Presumably most of us here went through this school system ourselves, if raised in England or Wales, and the Scottish system isn’t massively different, either. Surely we all remember what the school years mean from when we went to school ourselves?!

Nope when I was at school it was 1st -5th year secondary and then on to 6th form. There was no year 1- whatever it is.