to want advice from female breadwinners

[bumfeckbingo]

My DP has just totally bitten my head off and I'm struggling to not feel really shit.

Over the last few years I have been the one earning the majority of our income. DP has said this makes him feel bad and that he wants his current business venture to work out and mean we are more 50/50 on earning, like we used to be.

I make sure I divvy up the funds so we both have spending money etc. He isn't extravagant or anything but obviously things are tighter on one income rather than two. I really, really try not to make a big deal of this as I know he feels bad about the situation.

Just for balance a few years ago I lost the job I had at the time. He transferred money to my account, paid for things, gave me his card etc and never asked how much I had spent or on what. He never pressured me to hurry up and find work either, he just left me to it. I wasn't buying designer handbags or anything but I appreciated how he made an effort to preserve my sense of independence. Even though I was essentially dependent on him, it never felt like that. I would say I was un/under employed for around 8 months.

Fast forward to now and I am earning well and he isn't. I know he feels bad about it and I'm trying my best but sometimes like just now it feels like I'm getting punished for being the main earner when I go out of my way to not make a big deal of that.

Sorry if this doesn't read very well, I'm just so upset.

Does anyone have any experience of this and if so, what made it better? He seems so resentful of the situation which is hard because I am doing my best.

It's not your problem. It's his.

I earned a lot more than my DH for my whole working life. Now I've retired the balance us a bit different. He always said it didn't bother him, but in reality I suspect he was saying what he knew he ought to feel, and not always what he did.
Misogyny is so deeply ingrained in society. We are taught from a very early age that men are breadwinners and women are homemakers/earn less, and since women are of less value, so, obviously is any man who takes on "their " role.
I know my DH does not, intellectually speaking, believe that, amd that he can logically see that our contributions to the relationship and our family are much more even than our payslips would say, but he has frequently been belittled about it so it must have an emotional impact. Friends and colleagues (women included) regularly teased him about being a "kept man", made comments about me wearing the trousers and so on, and his family, particularly his parents, have studiously ignored my career for over 30 years, telling people that yes, I have a little part time job with a six figure salary
Not that things like this excuse the behaviour that the OP's husband is exhibiting but I think it does help to explain it. My DH is a very rational person - he knows that people's sly digs are actually misogynistic nonsense- but he can't always stop it getting under his skin. I find that it can help to remind him of all the stuff he does that I can't do, and that what we bring to the relationship can't be measured solely in £s.

My husband has always been the lower earner by a significant amount. There's not much you can do other than ensure a fair division of 'personal spending money' - it sounds as though you are already supporting him in his business venture.

TBH I wouldn't take any shit in this situation. It's his call whether he wants to persist with the business or look for potentially higher-paid salaried employment. If he's making your life difficult, lay that clearly on the line.

I think MrsAvocet has explained the issue succinctly. Men think they need to be the bread winners, get mocked by others if they are not, little jokes and digs from others which affects their self esteem. Instead of standing up to them they focus their attention on the wives. Funny how you dont see threads with woman upset and slating their DH for being the breadwinners.

My SIL is the bread winner, I dont know how the dynamic is played out in their relationship however her DH parents my Inlaws are awful. They didnt or couldnt believe she earned more than their darling boy, Would tell her the house was a mess or needed cleaning, never spoke to their son. They judged her for working rather than understanding that whilst it was lovely for MIL to be a SAHM and FIL earned the money and benefitted from early retirement at 49 with a great pension and private healthcare not all have that. His DS couldnt afford to pay for the mortgage and all his DC school fees on his salary. They just couldnt accept she was the bread winner. Shocking and funny enough they seem surprised that I earn a good wage. they seem to think I would be on the poverty line if my DH died. (he has a terminal illness hence the issue)

Your DH shouldnt be seeing this as an issue, you both earn differently he needs to move on from his own internal angst and if he cant i would be telling him to bog off.

@MrsAvocet is spot on.

I earn 2-3x what my DH does and we couldn’t survive on his salary, it’s literally far too low to pay the basic bills. I pay for all holidays and that kind of thing. I doubt whether his family have any idea, and I’m certain they think I just have a “little job”. MIL would probably not believe a woman can be the breadwinner. DH probably does wish we were more equal financially but that’s not my problem. He’s made his career choices and I’ve made mine.

@bumfeckbingo He says he wants his business to be more profitable so he can contribute more, that’s the remedy he wants, but there is not a single thing you can do about that. Like my DH he is in control of his own working life, you’re not holding him back! Would he be happy if you cut your income to match his?! Please try not to feel bad. It’s 100% him, not you.

@MrsAvocet and @theremustonlybeone

Yes, the little job for the little lady. My parents are very much of that mindset. I think my DP also has a divide between what he knows intellectually and then all the ingrained shite he would claim not to believe in. It's not like anyone knows who earns what between us.

He's just really upset me tonight because I was tired and had no idea he was doing something he needed to concentrate on when I spoke to him. Earning a living is a big part of his identity and I have sympathy for the fact that this situation is not what he'd choose but his frustration is getting directed at me and that doesn't help anything.

So to be clear you share the bills and anytjing left over is equally divided between you, but if you go out or get a takeaway you end up paying for it?

Because a. Thats not fair on you

B. This may be contributing to him feel less like an equal partner

Either way though he needs to get his head out of his arse and either get a higher paid job or stop taking it out on you

@FictionalCharacter if my income matched his we would be shafted to be honest. I do see the situation as having an element of luck, as well as mutual support mixed in. There is just this undercurrent of resentment and it's wearing me down. I don't expect him to cheer me on or anything and if there was something about the situation he wanted to change he could talk to me about it. I honestly think though he needs to either change it up or stop complaining and get on with living life.

He needs to pop the ego balloon and get over himself.

FWIW I am currently the higher earner in this house. No fucking way would I tolerate this petulant nonsense. He needs to urgently review how his business is working and make a plan to either improve it or ditch it in favour of paid employment.

His internalised sexist beliefs should be left in the past where they belong. You have been more than fair.

@Toomanyradishes I pay the majority share of the bills. Sometimes he can cover half or sometimes just a bit. I basically get the bill money together and send him that and his half of the rest. I pay for all food.

I do tend to cover outgoings like takeaway/drinks out etc I also do the shopping and ordering general around the house stuff that we need. He will pay for drinks out around half the time.

I don't personally think you need to earn the same amount to be equal but this business of his is certainly causing massive upset now. I know he's disappointed, but that can't fall on me. If he wants to continue I think he needs to calm down and accept it for what it is or change it up and earn more if he feels the need to. I don't really know what I'm supposed to do about it. I've talked to him for hours and hours about this business.

l think many men derive much of their identity and purpose in life from, working, earning, and providing for their family. Some more than others. It's perfectly reasonable that your husband feels uncomfortable with this situation. However, he does need to be a bit more self aware and not take it out on you. I know I will be lambasted for this but is there anything you can do in your home life to redress the balance? Let him take the lead. He sounds like he needs an ego boost. Maybe he feels he has failed you in some way and really his resentment is towards himself.

@Jazzles2021 We're not married, just to be clear.

He does see this as a failure and believe me I have been calm and supportive and interested and encouraging. It's the stress he's bringing into our lives that is getting me down. He works massive hours and thinks of little else. That's why he snapped at me. This isn't a passion business like art or something, it's just to make money and it doesn't do that.

Home life wise he has started cooking a lot. That's nice as I used to do most of it. I praise, thank and encourage him, as I would to anyone who hands me some dinner at the end of the day. He wants to earn a good (in his eyes) wage though, that's what this comes down to.

It's a difficult situation with no easy answer. People saying he needs to get over himself are right of course, but actually doing that is easier said than done.
I can empathise in a way. I had to take early retirement due to health problems, and amongst all the other stresses which came with that I suddenly lost some of my financial independence as well as my professional identity. And I didn't like it at all. To be brutally honest I still don't much like it. And I haven't been brought up in a society that has been telling me for my whole life that I am supposed to be the breadwinner. My career was in a STEM field and I'm know for being calm and logical so I was shocked by how much it bothered me. I knew my feelings were irrational, but that didn't make them go away.
All I can suggest is that you need to talk about it, possibly formally via counselling or some type of mediation. Practically speaking, is there any kind of business mentoring your DP can access to help make things work better and reduce the pressure?
I hope things look up for you both soon.

@bumfeckbingo A couple more thoughts. Are you under each other’s feet a bit too much? Are you trying to work in the same space? If so, is there any way you can work in separate spaces part of the time, to avoid tension building up between you too much?

I’m not in favour of women being expected to massage grumpy men’s egos when we’ve done nothing wrong, but I’m wondering if he doesn’t like the feeling that you’re giving him money. It sounds as though you have separate finances. The way DH and I do it is to have a joint account as well as our individual accounts. We each pay into the joint one monthly, and I pay more. This is used for all the bills, petrol, repairs etc. The money we each leave in our own accounts is our spending money, savings etc.
If we need more, I just throw some more in the joint account. So if DH needs money for something, he can take it from the joint account. That way he never feels that I’m handing him money. Does that make sense?

How long have you actually beeen together? Your not married, do you have your own home? Is he on the mortgage?

Oh and why are you praising him for cooking? You seem to spend your time stroking his ego, making him feel all important whilst he treats you like crap as he has issues around money. You sound like your dealing with a moody teenager

He might need to accept sunk costs & move on to something that does remunerate him to his satisfaction.

This may be more to do with failing or feeling like he or it are about to fail.

I try to discuss things at length with my DH but sometimes they need a line drawn & get told to shit or get off the pot, as a lovely colleague once put it...

What @MrsAvocet said. I'm also the breadwinner in our family earning 2 and 3x DH's salary since, pretty much the beginning of our relationship. He's trying hard to be supportive and not mind but he admits he struggles with the ingrained 'men are breadwinners and should take care of their family' storyline. His family also does 'His career and her little job' and can't seem to comprehend that the little me can make more money than their son. I am very uncomfortable when I feel like I'm expected to feel/act guilty/apologetic over having a job I do.

What may help is an open conversation focused on 'Ok, this is how you feel. So what would help? What would make you feel better? And how can I support you to achieve that (Within reason)?'.

@theremustonlybeone I'm so sorry about your DH.

As for your questions, not married, we don't own we rent. With cooking I just think it's polite. If you turned up with a dinner for me at the end of the day I would praise you for it. In a way I think that's what all the effort is for, if you can't sit down and enjoy your evenings then what is all the work for?

He does certainly have issues around money now, which is sad.

bumfeckbingo does your partner praise your efforts in the kitchen? It just seems very much one sided

@MrsAvocet There is definitely a difference between knowing something logically and knowing it emotionally. I honestly loathed the 8 months where I had no income and I really try with DP to make money available/in his account and so he doesn't have to ask me because I know he hates it. On the other hand, as someone up thread mentioned, the longer you're together and the more you get on in life the more likely it is you're going to need the other person in some way.

Thanks for your good wishes, I feel a bit better today. As @Wombat49 mentioned the sunk costs aspect is very much coming to the fore now. If he wanted to work saving baby otters or something and earn £0 doing it then that would be fine if he was happy at the end of it, it's that he chooses this high stress, no satisfaction route that then makes me feel awful as well. If he isn't going to earn then we need to live on what I earn.

I will talk to him, doubt that will go well. In terms of advice, he just wouldn't take any. He used to earn a high wage and that's just where he wants to get back to on his own steam. He is very clever actually, but very emotional too and he has just fallen in love with this idea.

What you say about men having to be the main earner in society's eyes is very true. In all this how often do you think I talk about my work or things to do with it that are worrying me? It's getting to be like his non earning job is my second job and it's getting me down.

@ComtesseDeSpair

I wouldn’t be doing any emotional pandering. If he feels bad and wants to be contributing more equally then he knows what to do - give up on his low-paying business venture and take a job with a proper salary. If he doesn’t want to do that then he doesn’t get to take his bruised ego out on you. I’d be as direct with him as that. His ego doesn’t take priority over you. Frankly, if he’s been faffing about with a “business” which hasn’t paid him a proper income for “the last few years” I don’t think he even has a business, just an expensive hobby - I’d be telling him it’s time to do some proper work.

I’m currently breadwinner in our house. I treat DP as my equal and make sure he has access to the money he needs. I don’t mind providing for us. I certainly wouldn’tallow him to punish me for his choices.

This.

I had an ex-husband like this. I out-earned him by a factor of 3x and he still insisted that I had to do all drop-offs and pick-ups because that was a "mother's role".

I'm sorry but being the breadwinner sometimes means doing the heavier-lifting, less interesting job. You can't both insist on wanting to do something creative and risky and also wanting to wear the financial trousers.

@theremustonlybeone Also, sorry, 9 years.

He is pretty positive about what I cook and compliments it all. He does know I expect that though, I don't expect a fanfare but I do think if someone makes you dinner you should say thank you. Either that or stand up and make your own.

Things did get very one sided a couple of years ago when this all started. In the end I was earning, cooking, cleaning and hearing about how it was all not good enough at the same time. So I went on strike in terms of everything except earning and he bucked his ideas up.

@DeepDown12 I'll try that approach, thank you.

@thepeopleversuswork I see what you mean but I don't want to wear the trousers so to speak. I pay (most of) the bills then halve the spending stuff, I really don't know what else to do. If he disagrees he needs to say something constructive not just have a go at me.

I don’t know what the answer is I’m afraid. In my own relationship I am aware of some tension due to the disparity in earning, aggravated by the fact that I don’t let my DH have unlimited access to my money.

Been where you are. When talking to dh he had lots of shame. He wouldnt use my bank card, he felt shame everytime I paid for meal out or activity. I didnt realise as I viewed it as our money. But after a good talk he said he knew it was irrational but he felt so much shame and became very isolated as a sahd.

We can aged things up by making bill account joint and everything was paid into it and all bills came out, we also had joint account for food and petrol then separate spend accounts which a small.amihnt of spending money was transferred by standing order each month. He finally felt like he could suggest going out to eat or cinema as he had his own bit of money to pay with.