To ask which is the best country for an NHS doctor to Immigrate?

[JetRocket]

Just looking for advice on which are the best/easiest countries for an NHS doctor midway through specialist training (finished CT3) to immigrate to?

We have 2 small children and only speak English fluently.

Anyone who has done it before, would be very pleased to hear your thoughts. Never thought we’d consider it but after 2 years of beyond hideous treatment we just can’t cope anymore our families mental health and work life balance is in shambles.

Made the move to Australia and have no regrets from a professional perspective. Feel free to pm me .

We’ve lived in a few countries, whenever we’ve used the health care in those countries the doctors and nurses all spoke English pretty fluently as well as their native language as a matter of course, and maybe another. As a sole English speaker you are a bit limited.

Why is this in AIBU?

@Mantlemoose

Oh no don't go, we need you. There I've said it, off you pop now. Do you really think other people all over the world aren't in the same position. You're a doctor, you signed up for what you had to do..I pity the care home staff, the supermarket workers and such like paid considerably less than you are. And no I didn't clap for you and yes I have used the nhs lots but that's what I pay tax for!

No people did not sign up to the poor working conditions they’re in. This demonstrates a total lack of insight or willingness to understand.

People in the NHS are the first to have concerns about social care workers, we see the awful working conditions there often at first hand or when talking to our social care colleagues. It doesn’t mean that people in the NHS are less likely to be pushed beyond their limits just because colleagues are also treated badly. People have been pushed beyond their limits.

Have a look at volunteering in the NHS then you could come back with an informed view.

Are you planning on paying back the cost of the training you have had so far ?

@LowlandLucky

Are you planning on paying back the cost of the training you have had so far ?

You mean the training while the OP was treating patients undergoing life and death situations? Or do you just mean the training the OP got as an undergraduate student?

I worked in Australia as a Registered Nurse/midwife. Absolutely loved it. You’ll probably be living in the city so no worries re wildlife. You just have to keep an eye out for the spiders.

OP the people I know have gone and stayed in Canada, New Zealand and Australia but all of them had completed their training. Others who had a bit of back and forth have gone to Gibraltar and Australia.

@LowlandLucky

Are you planning on paying back the cost of the training you have had so far ?

Do you mean the degree that she paid 9K in tuition fees per annum for, for at least 5 years so £45K, just for the privilege to serve on the NHS?

The debt most Drs now graduate with in close to £80K so what exactly should she be paying?

Before you decide to emigrate, is it worth considering going LTFT for a better work/life balance? Also some areas of the UK are much nicer (and cheaper!) to live and work in than others.

Dd is a medical student so no actual experience of yours yet. However, she's been doing some research into this as she plans on moving abroad (we're in Ireland) for a while, at least. She had just looked at it from a post grad perspective while still training.

The US is really crap apparently when still training. No work life balance. Australia seems far and away the best. The Netherlands is also a very good option but you would have to learn Dutch and brexit might mean it's no longer an option for you.

Someone upthread suggested Ireland. It's not great here either while still training so I wouldn't recommend it.

New Zealand is excellent, my best mate moved there a few years ago. Better pay, fewer hours, hugely better lifestyle.

@Snoopsnoggysnog so would it have been better had the OP written would I be unreasonable to emigrate whilst still in training?! FFS!!
@Mantlemoose who the hell has shat in your cornflakes?!! Shitty response!

Two pages in and there's already a few snippy comments suggesting that because people pay taxes, they therefore own the doctors in this country and they should put up and shut up. Totally pointless as it's not what the OP asked, though it does show the disdain that some people have for healthcare workers in this country. No wonder some of us want to leave!

OP, I'm a nurse so don't have much knowledge of the logistics, but an old colleague went to work in Australia after finishing their F2 and absolutely loved it. Much better work life balance, 4 days on, 4 days off sorry of thing, and better pay, but higher costs of living. One of our consultants is emigrating to Canada for good, though it has taken a year I think to get all of their paperwork sorted. Good luck.

Finland? English is pretty much the official language in Helsinki to the point that they are strongly considering making English Helsinki’s main language. And it’s an amazing country for families.

Mantlemoose You’re a happy bunny.

Someone unplug @Mantlemoose’s internet, FGS

@LowlandLucky

Are you planning on paying back the cost of the training you have had so far ?

The training that OP will have taken on large amounts of student debt for? Or do you mean the years as a 'junior' doctor where the OP was likely working a full shift pattern 48 hour week and working overtime to prop up the NHS?

No one should be beholden to a toxic work system and the OP is certainly not indebted to the NHS. I feel very someone who is clearly well-qualified who has to move abroad to find an employer who will treat them well! Perhaps you should worry less about the OP's training and more about why we have such a retention crisis of doctors (and other HCPs)?

Good luck OP

Australia - friend is enjoying it, but has its own issues. Friend is really struggling with the levels of overt racism.

New Zealand - looks amazing, only downside for me would be distance.
USA - specialty training is muuuuuch shorter (but crazy working hours), great pay, fab conditions, but comes with general issues of living in the

US - e.g. politics. Also have to take the USMLE.

Canada - would favour this over US, but think still have to take USMLE? Also like Oz, I am very much assuming that many of the positions actively recruited for from abroad are not in Toronto, (Sydney), etc but rather 'out in nowhere'.

My vote would be Europe. Learning a new language is really not as hard as it seems. My (English) friend taught herself German over a year from scratch (with help of online tutor, books, German Netflix and actively seeking out German conversation practice wherever possible). She is now doing specialty training there and could not be happier. Great quality of life, much less pressure, as much time as you need for each patient, lovely place to live.

I am sure Sweden, France, Netherlands, Finland, Denmark, etc would be equally appealing.

Sorry for the random paragraphs...

I feel very sorry for someone who is clearly well-qualified who has to move abroad to find an employer who will treat them well!

That should say!

@showerswithsunshine

I feel very sorry for someone who is clearly well-qualified who has to move abroad to find an employer who will treat them well!

That should say!

Yet to find the nirvana on the job being well supported, well paid, good working environment and supported at work etc and good balance of annual leave, sick pay, pension etc; most countries seem to have one or the other but not both!

Nowhere is Utopia. Having said that, Australia sounds good for pay, work life balance and conditions.

Having said that, certainly in comparison to the UK NHS, NZ is pretty good too, having talked with friends and family with experience in both. 300 MIQ spaces are going to be reserved for health care worker, shortly, and you are a world wide short resource, and there's going to be fierce competition for you, as anyone with a particle of common sense should be able to see.

Good luck. I don't blame you for exploring your options, given the attitudes and treatment, from the Government, to the media, to the general public, are giving you.

Here's a link to the article re the MIQ spaces:

www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126735042/covid19-government-announces-300-miq-spots-a-month-for-health-workers

Not this bit of Canada unfortunately. Our neighbours were from the US - she’d been a nurse in an ER Department for 25 years and Alberta wouldn’t even let her put a band aid on someone without requalifying.

We obtained permanent residency and then citizenship for Australia although we don’t live there now. I was on expat forums for many years, the main thing I notice from your first post is that you could be falling into an old trap of moving from something instead of to something or another way of saying it, is assuming that other countries don’t have problems and nobody has complaints about work.

I would really make sure you research whichever country you decide upon, rather than do a flouncy “it must be better than here” sort of thing.