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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Architects error

85 replies

Greenleaves20 · 19/10/2021 20:40

We’re in the middle of a kitchen diner extension to our house. We’ve discovered that the kitchen part is 20cm smaller than the architects drawings. This means our kitchen and island have to be reduced in size and also means the back wall is uneven. There is a post dividing the two sections so it probably won’t be too noticeable but it’s frustrating as we’d have gone out further into the garden if we’d known this. The shell of the building is finished and the roof is on. The project is costing well over £100K (utility and downstairs loo and hall all being done too). The architect has emailed to say it was an error due to an assumption they made but hasn’t really apologised. Having looked online etc I think I’m some ways we would like some compensation for this error, especially as we’ve paid over £10K in architects fees and their survey and it’s meaning we have to change our designs and end up with a smaller space. So should we (and anyone who knows are we able to) ask for some money back for this error?

YABU - it’s a mistake, just leave it and enjoy your extension

YANBU - ask for some money back

OP posts:
doodlejump1980 · 19/10/2021 20:42

Did you post about this yesterday?

Original poster
Greenleaves20 · 19/10/2021 20:44

A couple of days ago yes! Just wanted to see what opinion was about things now we have all the information and put it to a vote.

OP posts:
MasterBeth · 19/10/2021 20:45

We had a similar extension in our last house. Had (not) an architect draw up plans, and he made some fundamental errors about how high the walls would have to be for the roof span which meant that the kitchen layout had to change, a bit like you…

And do you know what..? As soon as you’re in and you live in it, 20cm here or there will make no difference. All building projects have some compromise between plans and completion. If it probably won’t be noticeable, you won’t notice it. Let it go.

cloudtree · 19/10/2021 20:48

Things happen with building work.

Dailywalk · 19/10/2021 20:49

Presumably there were dimensions on the drawings? And you approved them?
At what point did you realise it was built smaller? If no dimensions shown then how did your builders know what size to build?

unluckyinlife · 19/10/2021 20:57

A lot of drawings will have notes such as 'please check all dimensions on site before xyz' check all notes and disclaimers. Most architects will put the onus on builders to check as its not uncommon for builders not to follow drawings or insulation exactly therefore leading to discrepancies.

Original poster
Greenleaves20 · 19/10/2021 20:59

@MasterBeth thanks, you’re probably right. I’m not keen on conflict situations and they’ve been really good so far so perhaps easiest just to let it go!

@Dailywalk because their survey of the house was incorrect it has meant the dimensions on the drawings are wrong. We approved the drawings based on the sizes given and only realised when we went to measure for the kitchen at the weekend. As some rooms are being knocked together one of these rooms is further into the garden than it shows on the survey if that makes sense, hence the difference. Not something we could have known prior to measuring!

OP posts:
Dailywalk · 19/10/2021 21:09

It does sound like you have been a bit unlucky that the error wasn’t picked up sooner. You’ve also paid a lot in architect fees but I would question whether it is worth trying to claim anything back. Appreciate it is annoying that it’s not quite what you were expecting but is it worth chasing? Enjoy your new kitchen and try not to dwell on it.

RavingAnnie · 19/10/2021 21:10

I think you've paid the architects a lot of money and, by their own admission, they've made an error. Personally, I'd want a least a reduction/partial refund of fees, as you have had to make changes to your build as a result. I find it odd that they wouldn't compensate you when you;ve paid £10K for a service, I expect that service to be spot on, whatever it is.

Original poster
Greenleaves20 · 19/10/2021 21:17

@unluckyinlife this is something we need to look at thanks. The other thing is that the architect is being paid to project manage it so i’d have thought he’d be checking the measurements as we go along really!

OP posts:
Original poster
Greenleaves20 · 19/10/2021 21:20

@RavingAnnie yes you’re right, we have paid for a service and it isn’t up to the standard we were expecting. It’s annoying and it means the space will be tighter than we expected which is such a shame given the money we’re spending and the inconvenience with having to move out due to all the dust.

OP posts:
Winniemarysarah · 19/10/2021 21:25

I actually can’t believe these replies. You paid a professional a huge sum of money to design part of your house, and he fucked it up! And 20cm CAN make a big difference, as you’ve discovered now you’ve had to have various things changed/redesigned to fit the wrong sized kitchen. I hate the ‘compensation culture’ but I’d be livid over this, he’d be lucky to not have someone go after him for the costs to rebuild it, let alone a partial refund!

unluckyinlife · 19/10/2021 21:30

I'd definitely read the drawing notes and things to know where you stand. The fact they are project managing would change things for me, I'd ask them to confirm the builders have built to the specification on the drawings and if not show you where. This will then allow you to decide whether the architect or the builder would be liable for any costs incurred. Both the builder and architect should have insurance to cover these things but as long as there are no 'get-out' clauses you should be able to resolve this through a conversation without having to formally pursue costs. But I'd try and get any agreement in writing. (I work for an architectural practise so and oversee larger construction projects so just going off of experience) Hope you get things resolved x

minipie · 19/10/2021 21:33

I think it all depends on why the error was made which he hasn’t explained. Perhaps there is some reasonable excuse. Although I must admit I can’t think of one.

Builders do and do expect to rely on architects’ plans- not on the tiny details (eg architect plans will show a chimneybreast as completely straight when in RL it’s probably a bit wonky) but certainly to the tune of 20cm, that’s not a small amount.

Has it cost you extra to have the kitchen adjusted?

DiscoGlitterBall · 19/10/2021 21:37

Is it actually an architect? If so they will be RIBA, should have professional insurance and if you so wished you can make a complaint via RIBA.

I’d expect them to come up with a solution first though

JayAlfredPrufrock · 19/10/2021 21:41

20cm is a lot.

We had a similar issue bug it was for the RSJ so they had to start again.

And the builders doing the garage built the wrong side of the string. Had to start again.

As my old dad used to say ‘measure twice, cut once’.

LetHimHaveIt · 19/10/2021 21:42

I'm reading this on an iPhone 12 mini that I'm informed is 5.5 inches. So the space you've lost is one roughly one and a half times the length of my smartphone. Or the length of a banana. It'd make a difference on the space shuttle, sure, but not in a frigging kitchen extension. I'm not saying he hasn't cocked up a bit but PP insisting it isn't a small amount is being absurd. It is a small amount.

JayAlfredPrufrock · 19/10/2021 21:44

Not if you’ve designed your kitchen units for the larger space.

Original poster
Greenleaves20 · 19/10/2021 22:02

We’ve just been looking at things again and have realised that this error also means that we now have a 50cm post between the kitchen and the sofa area rather than a 30cm one because it sits on the wall that is further forward than they thought. I feel 50cm is quite a big post and means we will have to walk round it to get into the kitchen area. This is altering how I think about it all now and I don’t want a massive post. We’ve paid extra to reduce posts and move them away as much as possible so my feeling now is that I want this change to be rectified.

OP posts:
HunkyPunk · 19/10/2021 22:03

PP insisting it isn't a small amount is being absurd. It is a small amount.

20cm might sound like a small amount, but it’s not a small amount taken over the entire kitchen.

Original poster
Greenleaves20 · 19/10/2021 22:08

@Winniemarysarah yes I am pretty annoyed now actually, now we’ve realised what this means for the post and the kitchen design in general!

@JayAlfredPrufrock how did you go about asking them to rectify the mistake? I assume this was all paid for my them?

@minipie sorry I don’t think I explained that very well. The architect has admitted in an email that they made an assumption about two walls being in line with each other when there’s actually 20cm between them. This then meant the survey drawings were incorrect.

OP posts:
Original poster
Greenleaves20 · 19/10/2021 22:09

I also don’t think 20cm is a small amount. It’s affecting the post and is half one of the pull out larder cupboards which is a lot. It also means space is tighter getting around chairs etc. And for the money we’ve paid I’d expect things to be accurate!

OP posts:
WoolyMammoth55 · 19/10/2021 22:12

Hi OP, I went through the move-out for extension experience last year so I am with you on the stress, anxiety and weeping of it all...

FWIW we love our house now it's done and the hideous stress feels like a bad dream.

I think if I were you I would sleep on it for now, and in the morning call your architect and calmly and clearly state your position - ask how it went wrong, say you feel that you've paid a lot for something not as expected, etc.

Find out what his position is, what advice he can give you regarding additional time needed to rectify, etc. See if he makes an offer of compensation.

While you're within your rights to be disappointed - extremely so - you do in fact want the project completed, and since he's your project manager too you want to work with him to resolve this amicably if at all possible!

In the worst case scenario going nuclear in full indignant fury might lose you a project manager and leave you with an unliveable house and a court case to get stuff sorted, which would be sub-optimal :)

Best of luck!

BoredZelda · 19/10/2021 22:23

A lot of drawings will have notes such as 'please check all dimensions on site before xyz'

Not “a lot” ALL drawings say this. It is a well known fact in the industry that you never order or plan from drawings, it is always done from a site survey. Whoever planned the kitchen would have warned that a site survey was required too.

The architect hasn’t been negligent, making a complaint to the RIBA is ridiculous.

Builders do and do expect to rely on architects’ plans

Nope. Not if they are reputable.

minipie · 19/10/2021 22:45

Confused BoredZelda our kitchen had to be designed and ordered long before there was a finished shell to measure. So it had to be done off the architects plans. Architect was fully aware of this and expected it. Yes there was a site survey right at the end before fitting to check the built dimensions matched the plans but by then it would have been too late to make any major changes to the kitchen design.

I suppose if you are ordering a kitchen that is available within a week or teo then you can wait till the shell is built and order it off those real life measurements but surely most kitchens have to be designed off the plans.

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