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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Bullying or friendship issues

54 replies

ShepherdMoons · 18/10/2021 22:51

I've posted in the past about my dd (8) who is I'm a very small class of 10. There were four girls and five boys until another girl joined the class last term. Since then it seems to have come to a head more.

Dd has been recently been bullied by a boy in the year below (this is now resolved). It really affected her though and she really wants to play with her bestie and the new girl. Dds bestie now is close friends with the new girl, they so a lot of extra curricular activities together (I only found out about this last week).

Today dds bestie told dd she had to play on the other side of the playground away from her friends today. They shout at dd to get away if she comes close.

Is this just friendship problems or bullying? The class teacher is off sick long term at the moment but I feel that this problem is getting worse. Dd is anxious at night and didn't get much sleep last night.

OP posts:

2lsinllama · 19/10/2021 09:16

Regardless of whether you call it friendship problems or bullying it needs sorting. This kind of thing is common in schools and they will have things in place to deal with it. It probably won’t be the class teacher on lunch duty anyway so ask to speak to either the cover teacher or the Head of year/phase leader.

CocaColaTruck1 · 19/10/2021 09:18

It's common, I would still speak to the school regardless of her teacher being off, they'll know how to handle it

girlmom21 · 19/10/2021 09:23

Either way it's horrible for your daughter and I'd speak to the teacher

Stompythedinosaur · 19/10/2021 09:40

It is friendship issues if it happens once or only intermittently, bullying if a prolonged pattern of behaviour.

Either way, speak to the teacher about it. There are things the school can do you help - focus on friendships in class, lead more of the play, maybe have a "buddy bench".

On your previous thread I know you said it wasn't easy to host 1:1 playmates or support extra curricular hobbies, but those can both really help a dc who is struggling with friendships.

I'd also steer clear of the talk about "best friends" and encourage your dc to have lots of different friends. For whatever reason her previous "bestie" enjoys spending time with the new dc more, and that is actually OK. Your dc might need to explore other possible friendships.

TwinsandTrifle · 19/10/2021 09:42

OP I know it's hard when it's your child that's not everyone's priority, but you sound really PFB. Your daughter isn't entitled to this "bestie" this girl perhaps doesn't see your DD the same and has simply made close friends with someone else. You sound quite resentful, "it was all fine til that new girl came along".

If there were only ever 3 other girls to choose to play with, it could be that none of the girls are particularly suited, they just got on best out of the tiny number to choose from. This was my DS in tiny classes in first few years of private school. His "bestie" was nothing of the sort really, he was a simply a bit more on DS wavelength than the other boy. As soon as the classes started enlarging, DS found proper friends with common interests, rather than having no real option.

Dds bestie now is close friends with the new girl, they so a lot of extra curricular activities together (I only found out about this last week).

Why difference does it make that you found out at all? It's not your business. You sound like this child is almost cheating on your daughter, annoyed that she likes another child enough to see them out of school. She likes going with the other girl.

Today dds bestie told dd she had to play on the other side of the playground away from her friends today. They shout at dd to get away if she comes close.

Sorry OP, but again it doesn't sound like this girl sees your DD as any kind of bestie, so perhaps clear that from your mind. It sounds more and more like DS in his tiny class and essentially had to play with the two boys available, or no one. Neither were his cup of tea and as soon as other children arrived that he had genuine friendship with, he made friends, as they did too. It's not ok for them to shout at her if she tries to play with them though. That needs addressing. But it's not their fault they really get on. What is it exactly that your DD is doing that they are shouting at? Is she following them around all lunch time? Is there no one else she can talk too? If your DD was being followed about by a child she didn't want to play with, and there were other children around, would you be saying to her that she must play with the child even if she doesn't want too?

Wisewordswouldhelp · 19/10/2021 09:48

Can she play with the year below or above? Her year is tiny! My children have a similar situation at a small village primary but they have friends in other years, the school also doesn't encourage best friends which helps.
I'd talk to the headteacher and whoever is covering the class. This will be doing your DDs self esteem no favours..
If school can't resolve i would def think of another school.

Original poster

ShepherdMoons · 19/10/2021 10:14

@TwinsandTrifle yes I appreciate I sound a bit PFB but I have had a really stressful time. You are probably right in saying that I feel resentful but I hate seeing dd so upset. I think the girl dd considered her 'bestie' has always been very attached to dd and after school hugs, kisses and says she loves her so it is confusing that at playtimes that she tells dd to go away.

Thank you to the other posters, I am going to speak to the teacher today (there is a cover teacher but she is someone the children know as works in a different class in the school). Dd has said she's tried to play with the years below her but that most children play in their own groups now. She might need to work harder at forging new bonds and persist at it. I know dd often says that she is happier to play with her own year group but with a choice of only 4 other girls this is proving to be very difficult.

I'm also going to call the authority today and just find out about other schools with spaces in the area. I think if all these problems can't be worked out maybe we should consider a larger school with a larger pool of friendships.

OP posts:

maddening · 19/10/2021 10:29

We moved ds from a v small school (similar class size to the one you describe) due to exclusion bullying, one boy took against him and others could not play with ds as this boy did not want ds to play. The boy in question is quite domineering and gobby.

The problem in a small school (which was my main concern in choosing that school) was the impact of friendship issues, in a small class there is nowhere to go if they fall out, larger classes mean that they can move to other groups.

We gave ds the option to move, it was his choice. I felt that if it was me being bullied in a workplace and I had the option to move then i would myself. He was at start of year 5 and it was best to move then than try and "work with the school" and still be in the same position in year 6. Best move ever, ds is happier, the school is better (and closer - as we moved house in 2018). He is also not so daunted about moving to High school having done a school move now, plus the new school being bigger means that he won't be so overwhelmed by the increase in numbers from the small school to high school, it is like a stepping stone to high school.

Coronawireless · 19/10/2021 10:51

This is awful for your DD. Of course the other girl doesn’t have to be her bestie if she no longer wants to but that does leave your DD with very few options through no fault of her own. Poor child! The teacher needs to help address how things happen in the playground, and remind all parents to encourage their children not to leave others out. Some might say their child doesn’t have to include anyone - bullshit! In such a small class the onus is on everyone not to make people unhappy.
My DD was in a similar set-up - tiny class ruled by two girls who decided who was in or out. She wasn’t in fact being excluded but I disliked the culture of the class - mean notes being passed around, children being told where they could sit or who they could talk to. I also disliked some of the parents involved, and the failure of the teachers to address the issue. So I moved her. We were very fortunate to be able to. She said she didn’t want to move - all the girls knew that whenever they weren’t around the others would bitch about them and I think she was actually afraid to leave. She’ll still say she misses her old school but to me her body language and general mood tells me that she is much much happier where she is now - a much larger class where girls can simply “step away” from friendships which aren’t working.

Coronawireless · 19/10/2021 10:53

And in the new school, and in my other DD’s (happier) class, “best friends” are strongly discouraged.

billy1966 · 19/10/2021 11:05

OP,

Over the past 25 years I have had a variety of lovely friends send their children to small single sex or mixed sex schools both rural and urban.

There have ALWAYS been issues.

They ALL relate to the small numbers.

Some children gel some don't, it's a part of life, but IMO the larger the class the greater the chance that a child will make a connection.

With such a small number of girls it is likely there will always be some drama.

I appreciate it is a hassle but I would bite the bullet and move to a larger school as close as possible to where you live.

Think in terms of secondary schools for her and the feeder primaries for them.

Justilou1 · 19/10/2021 11:09

It’s a form of bullying called exclusion. It’s fucking horrible. Poor kid! Please speak to your DS’s teacher.

Justilou1 · 19/10/2021 11:09

DD’s… stupid thumbs!!!

billy1966 · 19/10/2021 11:19

Meant to add, of course loads of children will have had happy years in small schools, however if there are issues like you describe, they can go on for years without ever being fully resolved.

Those that moved on were ultimately very happy with their decision.

One friend of mine just removed one child because her other two were actually very content.
It was a PITA adding a different school to her runs with work, but ultimately it was worth it because her child was much happier and family life was far calmer.

Justilou1 · 19/10/2021 11:26

My kids went to a very small school and found similar issues. Also, shit teachers with no accountability.

PatchworkElmer · 19/10/2021 11:32

Move her.

TwinsandTrifle · 19/10/2021 11:38

@Justilou1

It’s a form of bullying called exclusion. It’s fucking horrible. Poor kid! Please speak to your DS’s teacher.

Is it though? In a class of 20, if my son wants to play with Fred and Jack, but Fred and Jack don't want to play with DS, are they bullies? They spend all lesson time being sat next to whoever the teacher decrees, so in their lunch when they want to blow off steam, they are allowed to choose who they would like to play with.

The issue here is the tiny class size. That's what inherently excludes the DD. The fact she's only got 4 people to choose from, and she wants the 2 who don't wish to play with her. If there were 18 other to choose from...

I think it also depends on what the DD is actually doing. If they're just off in a little dream world and she follows them continually, trying to interject, then of course they will get irritated. Quite possibly out of frustration they might ask to be left alone.

If she's timidly approaching and they're shouting at her if she gets within 20ft that's a little different.

They don't have to play with her. They do have to be nice to her. They're not doing the latter and that needs addressing, but it shouldn't be too attached to the former.

If another new girl starts, she might be a great match for DD. If you don't think this is very likely for a couple of years, I'd look at other schools.

5zeds · 19/10/2021 11:38

Why can’t she play with any of the boys? Or the children in other year groups? Or the other girls in her class?

Original poster

ShepherdMoons · 19/10/2021 19:18

Dd used to be close friends with a boy in her class but really Year 2 saw them drift apart. The five boys play very rough, they play Fortnite and it involves a lot of grabbing, pushing and dragging (from what I have seen and dd has told me!). Dd doesn't really enjoy playing with them any more.

I'm seriously considering the move to a larger school. I think another few months of these problems due to the small class with be too stressful for dd and for me!

OP posts:

5zeds · 19/10/2021 20:25

Ask school to help. They should have nurture groups to support those who are less able socially. Better to make this work than move if possible.

maddening · 19/10/2021 20:43

@TwinsandTrifle

"Justilou1

It’s a form of bullying called exclusion. It’s fucking horrible. Poor kid! Please speak to your DS’s teacher.

But this is classes of 10, not 20, if the 3 or 4 boys leave the other boy out there is noone else to play with.

Imagine a small workplace, is purposefully excluding a colleague not bullying?, sure you don't have to socialise out of work but in work you sick it up and remain inclusive (except in cases where is person is, for example, abusive or carrying out sexual harrassment) but just not clicking you still chat and remain civil. Invite them to the works do etc

If you send your dc to a small school then they do need to learn not to leave people out. Eg Fred does not like your ds, so they don't play one on one, but once there is more than one person they should be inclusive, so yes, Fred and Jack should not leave ds out if he is on his own and in a small class.

Original poster

ShepherdMoons · 19/10/2021 21:47

@maddening I see your point, yes it does sound like bullying when it's put like that. Just put dd to bed and shes still anxious about it all.

@5zeds the school don't have any system in place for friendship issues that I know of. They don't even have buddy benches as the Head believes that the same kids end up on them so they become 'loser' benches.

OP posts:

5zeds · 19/10/2021 22:26

Parents wouldn’t necessarily know what is in place to support the children in break times. Often it’s lunchtime clubs or “helping around the school”. Ask them

Original poster

ShepherdMoons · 19/10/2021 22:57

There are definitely no lunchtime clubs, there just aren't enough staff or kids to justify them.

I could ask about helping around the school, I've not heard of anything along these lines though. It really is a small place.

OP posts:

5zeds · 19/10/2021 23:14

It’s standard practice in school so maybe they just don’t have anyone else who needs it. (Ours was a teeny school)

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