Bullying or friendship issues

[ShepherdMoons]

I've posted in the past about my dd (8) who is I'm a very small class of 10. There were four girls and five boys until another girl joined the class last term. Since then it seems to have come to a head more.

Dd has been recently been bullied by a boy in the year below (this is now resolved). It really affected her though and she really wants to play with her bestie and the new girl. Dds bestie now is close friends with the new girl, they so a lot of extra curricular activities together (I only found out about this last week).

Today dds bestie told dd she had to play on the other side of the playground away from her friends today. They shout at dd to get away if she comes close.

Is this just friendship problems or bullying? The class teacher is off sick long term at the moment but I feel that this problem is getting worse. Dd is anxious at night and didn't get much sleep last night.

I would definitely consider this type of behaviour bullying, your poor DD. Almost the same thing happened to me when I was 8, and I remember it like it was yesterday, the harsh words and the way it made me feel. I was lucky that there were other girls in my class I could play with but I certainly felt sad and isolated for a while and it obviously affected me as I remember it so vividly even now and I'm almost 40! What about the other girls in DDs class? Could you arrange a play date for them?

There are only two other girls in the class and they have completely gelled as a pair and have never really played with dd (they just have nothing in common).

Dd played with the younger children in the playground at first but now they have got their own groups she says they don't want to play with her as much now.

Before dd's class teacher went off sick dd had spoken to her about her close friends excluding her. Dd said the teacher told dd to just try to involve herself more.

The school asked us to contribute monthly by direct debit (they stated a minimum but said really as much as you can give). One of the girl's mums (one that is excluding her) pays a substantial amount into the school every month. She is also very involved in actively looking for funding from businesses for the school. I do feel like the teacher doesn't want to upset this mother (perhaps I'm being cynical).

I actually don't think you sound PFB at all. I think given the circumstances you are actually being very level headed about things. I think until you experience your child crying at night, not wanting to go to school & having no friends you can't imagine how difficult it is. I would absolutely speak to the school, the girls CAN NOT be shouting at your daughter in the playground to go away from them etc. They are purposely being horrible to her. They may well just get on better as a pair but I would honestly be appalled if my DD thought it was acceptable to behave that way towards anyone. The posters on here saying it's fine baffle me & I hope my kids don't go to school with yours. In your position if this is a long term thing and your daughter is on board with it then I would absolutely look at moving her school, for all you know these girls parents think what they are doing is fine & if so you'll have another few years of this misery for your DD.

There are only two other girls in the class and they have completely gelled as a pair and have never really played with dd (they just have nothing in common).

This you're fine with. But now the other girl has found someone and has completely gelled as a pair, it's not ok. Because it's who your DD wants to play with.

She doesn't want to play with the boys. She doesn't want to play with any of the other children. But because two girls don't want to play with her, they're bullies? They are only "excluding" her from their duo (as per the other two girls who OP seems to find fine) It's not their fault there's no one else that the DD wants to play with. There are loads of other children. DD doesn't want to play with them, excluding herself.

So when you said, there were four girls before, there were actually this "gelled pair" your DD and one girl. So for your DD and one girl, they ended up hanging out as default. Now another girl has joined, and become a "gelled pair" with the girl, your DD has lost her default.

It's not the girls' fault. It's a combination of the class being small, and your DD dismissing every other child there as people she doesn't want to play with.

Absolutely they should not be shouting at her to go away. They don't sound like nasty girls from what you've said. I imagine they just wanted to play and ran off together, maybe it's something like they do a dance class together (you said they do a lot of extra curricular stuff together) and they're practicing the routine together, and your DD kept following/hovering until they got annoyed. They have no right to be unkind. They have no obligation to entertain DD because she doesn't want to play with any other children. It's unlikely that shouting "go away" was their first response. Have they told her three times before that "we just want to practice please".

Either your DD has to accept she can play with any of the other children there, rather than focusing only on these two girls, or if that's not going to happen, maybe look at another school.

We live a bit in the back of beyond, and there is only one boy near us. He happens to attend the same school as DS. All school holidays, DS goes to call on this boy. This boy is round here continually. You'd think they were best pals. When they return to school, they barely acknowledge each other, DS is off with his social group as is the other boy. They play here together, because it's each other, or no one. As soon as they have the option of people they truly gel with, they naturally gravitate towards them. This is all that's happened here. If DS then started following this other boy around at school until the other boy (who I know is not a bad child) tells him to "go away" then I have to take some accountability that my DS is being irritating in order for this other child to act like that in response. No, the response is not ok. But neither is my DS following/interrupting/attaching himself to this boy, who's just trying to enjoy his lunch break, because that's who he wants to play with. At some point, the other boy is going to get very frustrated. I wouldn't be declaring him a bully.

I know this sucks because it's your DD who has to make adjustment here, but whether the girls are shouting at her, or telling her very calmly, they want to play by themselves, actually the end result is the same.

Well the above comment shows clearly the “I’m all right Jack” attitude of a certain type of parent that allows this playground unkindness.

Well the above comment shows clearly the “I’m all right Jack” attitude of a certain type of parent that allows this playground unkindness.

You mean like OP, until this other 8yr old turned up and "ruined everything" for her DD.

No one has done anything wrong. DD doesn't want to play with anyone else, which OP thinks is fine. But these two girls don't want to play with DD and OP thinks the school need to address these "bullies". OP notes that she's already had to deal with another bully last month. Maybe so. Maybe a pattern is starting for anyone who doesn't do what DD wants and objects to her.

The school have already told the DD to play with other children. They haven't told the two girls to stop bullying.

Just a second! No that is not the case at all, dd was being physically slapped, hit and pushed by the other boy!!! I think what you are saying here is very unfair.

Then maybe you need to move schools? If she's being slapped by one child, and refuses to play with all the children bar 2, who just want to play by themselves?

It doesn't sound like a fun time. And I think you need to be encouraging your daughter to accept she needs to play with other people, rather than being angry at an 8yr you've defined as her bestie, preferring to play with another girl. Apparently your DD can dismiss others as people she doesn't want to play with, but these two girls can't.

Dd has never dismissed any other child at all! She would welcome another child to play with even in another year group. I said she would prefer to play with someone from her year group.

Yes I am ringing schools today to see if she can be moved.

FYI the incident with the boy was not just something that involved my dd. The boy attempted to strangle dd's friend and it resulted in the Head having to speak to him about it!!!

I really think you have got your facts wrong here. Dd was certainly not 'following' this boy around at all.

I really think you have got your facts wrong here. Dd was certainly not 'following' this boy around at all.

No, you've misread that. She's most likely following the two girls until they get so annoyed they shout. As you say this girl doing so is sweet and gives hugs etc. So it is very unlikely her reflex response is to shout at your DD. More likely she has asked nicely several times and your DD ignores this.

OP, it’s useful to have an insight into the mindset of these kinds of parents. They haven’t even read your posts.
There are two sets of best friends and a group of boys who play more physical games that this little girl is not interested in. She is unluckily left on her own and it sounds as if none of the other 4 girls (happily paired up) notice or care. I would be angry with my DD of this was happening in her small class and she was happy to leave a child to spend the days on her own day after day. Really not ok. But as I say - just read some of the above posts to see the type of homes these girls come from. If things don’t improve, I think you’d be right to move on and leave them to it. What an unkind group of people.

Yes. You should obviously break up the natural friendship groups because of one child, who only has no one because she prefers to play within her tiny year group, and the other "lone girl" has now made another friend.

The world does not revolve around DD. OP is teaching her it does by insinuating that two girls forming natural pairs, and her DD not being one of those, is bullying. You can see her dislike of this "new girl" and how she "found out" that they were doing after school activities together from her OP. Literally it reads like she thinks this little girl is cheating on her daughter.

The two girls played together before, because they were the only two left over. It doesn't look like the other girl was naturally drawn to DD, given that another girl has only just started and they are immediately doing out of school stuff with her (presumably she never chose to with DD or OP would have let us know this).

I'm sorry if its hard reading OP, but it's a fact of life that people will prefer others over your DD. It doesn't make them bad, or wrong, there will be people who prefer your DD, she's just in such a tiny year group that because Alice likes Jane, and Susan likes Claire, that's everyone paired off.

And no, I won't teach my children that they must continually play with people they don't want too, because the other child wanting too has a greater right. They don't.

As long as my children are kind, they can choose their friends. "Why do we have to play with Peter? He always wants to play robots, it's loud and we don't like it, and no one else wants too"

"Oh but you must, or Peter won't have anyone to play with"

Actually. Peter needs to understand that, if no one else wants to be that loud, he can either a) be loud on his own, no one's stopping him, or b) he doesn't get to dictate how anyone else plays, so he can join the other children, playing tag (or whatever) because that's their choice.

Peter's rights do not trump anyone elses.

Imagine DD being told "you must play football at lunch"..... "But, I don't like football? I don't want to play football. I am not friends with the people that play football."....."yes but Peter wants too, so you must"

You wouldn't expect that of DD. Why do you expect it from other children?

No one’s expecting the girls to be best friends with the child. Just to have a class where everyone is kindly included during playtime hours, not all paired off leaving one child constantly alone so that their school year is lonely and miserable. Outside of school everyone can meet whom they like.
It’s not hard to understand, and many classes and groups do work this way. Unfortunately other groups have people like the pps in them.

But go ahead and wilfully misunderstand.

OP - please ignore the horrible poster and try to move your daughter to a different school. My daughter had similar problems at her small (although slightly bigger) primary. It is absolutely NOT ok to exclude one particular child and parents who encourage that kind of behaviour are unbelievable

not all paired off leaving one child constantly alone so that their school year is lonely and miserable.

There's 2 pairs. It's only all paired off because OP has put her DD in such a tiny school that two pairs means the whole group bar one girl. They were "all paired off" with the four of them previously.

It is absolutely NOT ok to exclude one particular child and parents who encourage that kind of behaviour are unbelievable

Lol at this projection.

The DD is "excluded" because one pair of people prefer to play in their pair. The DD hasn't ever played with the other two girls, so OP decides this "pairing" is fine. But the one girl DD has always relied on simply being there, has now found a good friend that she likes to see in and out of school. But this isn't ok with OP. It's exclusion bullying. Interesting that she's not complaining about the other pair of girls. Because her DD chooses not to play with them. But because another child has started, she posting about this girl stealing her daughter's bestie This is because OP has put her DD in a tiny school, and doesn't like that two children prefer each other to her DD, yet the other two girls in a pair are allowed to continue playing as they choose because they aren't DDs preference. The one that DD wants is a bully if she doesn't want to play with DD.

Parents who instill "if others won't play with you then they're bullies" are doing their children a far greater disservice than those who say "it's ok not to be everyone's cup of tea, play with someone else". It's none of the children's fault that the school is so tiny, there is no "someone else" in the selection that DD prefers to play with.

This is entirely different to a class of 30 all actively excluding 1 child. It's three children, and two get on better.

@TwinsandTrifle I really think you have completely misunderstood this situation

Thank you to the other posters who have given such kind advice. I called the local authority this morning and I have some schools to ring up thus afternoon.

@TwinsandTrifle

If the boys are leaving Peter out the teachers should be helping the dc to learn how to negotiate play rather than leaving out 1 dc. Eg how to take turns so that all dc get a bit of a game they want inc the boys and Peter.

Being aware of people being left out and compromising to include others is a good social skill to have.

Given a bit of time and the chance to join in i am sure Peter would become a fun friend to play with too. He can't learn being left out and lonely on the side lines. So all dc learn good social skills and possibly benefit from a friendship initially discarded due to social awkwardness.

And parents that say "it doesn't matter if Peter is on his own, it is OK to leave him out" are doing everyone a disservice.

It's horrible to exclude one child for whatever reason. And when my daughter was telling me how no one (including my daughter) wanted to play with one particular girl at her old primary, I always told her this was not ok and encouraged her to be kind to the girl (because how would she feel if it was done to her!)

It's terrible parenting to teach your kids not to care about other kids' feelings!

thank you for your advice. I'd just like to correct any misgivings about dd's social skills. She has good friends outside of school, the girl she regarded as her 'bestie' was a very good friend (a reciprocal friendship not dd following her round as has been proposed on here) and I think the upset here is genuinely because dd was previously always included and now is not. I would definitely not describe dd as 'socially awkward' at all!!! It's a small pool of friends as many have pointed out.

There is a good community school not far from us that has places so we are going to meet the headteacher with a view to move dd after half term. There are other benefits to a larger school, hopefully this will have more clubs, activities, facilities than the one she is currently in.

It worked well for us OP. My DD has good social skills too. Good luck!

I’m not sure what you think good social skills are if the difficulties are all social?

@maddening

And parents that say "it doesn't matter if Peter is on his own, it is OK to leave him out" are doing everyone a disservice.

It's not ok to leave Peter out for unkind reason.

We're practicing something we learned last night. Isn't unkind.