Mother or Birthing Parent

[thaigreen]

Which term do you prefer?

YABU Birthing Parent
YANBU Mother

Birthing parent sounds a bit like pregnant heifer/cow.

If someone who is female (i.e. has female reproductive organs) and giving birth prefers to be referred to as a 'parent' rather than a 'mother' then fair enough (albeit they are technically the biological mother) but the vast majority of people who give birth are happy to be referred as mothers.

Sorry was supposed to say 'who is female but identifies as a man' (i.e. a transman).

The word mother means so much more than “birthing parent”. It’s horrific to reduce women in this way.

A mother does so much more than give birth after all.

@JapanJetplane

Would refer to myself as mother but don’t care if anyone else refers to me as birthing parent. Happy for inclusive language to be used as it doesn’t cost me anything and makes life better for other people.

You think that it doesn't cost you anything but do pejorative labels like 'menstruator' used by men, when men are never referred to as 'ejaculators' really not matter?

Does the fact that women get death threats from men who identify as women not matter?

"Mother" is a loaded term.
You can be a mother without growing and birthing a child, and you can grow and birth a child without being a mother.

I'm assuming some women who are pregnant but dont want the baby dont associate themselves with being mothers? Not sure if that is fair but it's what I've read on here before. In which case birthing parent still wouldn't be right.

@peachgreen

To be clear, what we're talking about here is governmental policy documents which are specifically talking about people who have given birth. There are mothers who don't give birth, and people who give birth who don't call themselves mothers (including those who are giving their children up for adoption). Therefore, in formal policy documents, "birthing parent" is the most accurate term. Because it is not policy about being a mother. It is not applicable to all mothers. It is applicable to all people who have given (or are going to give) birth.

To me this discussion isn't even about transgender people. It is about the accuracy of language in legally or legislatively binding, documents. And in my experience (as someone who writes said documents for a living!), the more accurate and specific you can be, the better.

To be clear, what we are talking about here are government policies relating to WOMEN who have given birth. In common parlance, these WOMEN are called mothers. Even if they give their baby away, even if a tragedy befalls their baby, the process of pregnancy and birth has transformed them into a mother.

All women who have given birth have the right to refer to themselves as mothers. This is an accurate and legally-defined description used in policy. Other types of mother may exist and require qualifying words to describe them, depending on context eg non-birth mother, adoptive mother.

@peachgreen I do agree with you that this discussion isn’t about transgender people, but about the accuracy of language in legally or legislatively binding documents. And as someone who also writes said documents, I am confident that the use of the term mother remains both accurate, legal, and as a bonus, widely understood by the general public. On the other hand the term birthing parent is not defined in legislation, is inaccurate (in that ‘birthing’ only describes the act of labour), and is not widely understood. Indeed it could be argued that a birthing parent is not a mother - as they remain a pregnant woman (and not yet a mother) until the act of ‘birthing’ is complete.

So is the father a a non- birthing parent?
I really don't understand why we need to use birthing parent . Is it because the tiny percentage of transmen who end up giving birth don't want to be called a mother? If that is the case then in those specific instances ' birthing partner ' could be used if preferred but why should everyone else who is a mother be referred to like that ?

Is the aim to completely erase the word mother because trans men who have children want the word banned in case it is accidentally assigned to them and their feelings get hurt

If the use of mother is not allowed, will our children be expected to call us birther and non- birther instead of mum and dad ?

Where does it end?

If someone wishes to be called a birthing parent, fine, I’d respect their choice and assume it would be a fairly small minority.
It should in no way detract from or change the wording for Mothers who wish to be referred to as a Mother.

As a matter of interest, if a woman has an abortion in the eighth week of a pregnancy (or as soon as she realises she is pregnant) is she a mother? Or does there have to be a potentially viable child involved for the term to be reasonable?

Similarly, if someone is unable to carry a baby for more than twelve weeks before it spontaneously aborts, is she a mother? (I know at least one who would have found it intensely horrible to be called a mother after that had happened for the third time, but she wasn't a birthing parent either at that point.)

@Marelle

I didn’t give birth so what does that make me? I don’t think Birthing Parent and Mother mean the same thing.

Not all mothers give birth but everyone who gives birth is a mother. We already have 'biological mother' or 'birth mother' to cover adoption, surrogacy and lesbian parents.

@CoalCraft

In reference to myself, mother. Or just Mum.

Other people can call themselves whatever they like.

Absolutely x

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime

As a matter of interest, if a woman has an abortion in the eighth week of a pregnancy (or as soon as she realises she is pregnant) is she a mother? Or does there have to be a potentially viable child involved for the term to be reasonable?

Similarly, if someone is unable to carry a baby for more than twelve weeks before it spontaneously aborts, is she a mother? (I know at least one who would have found it intensely horrible to be called a mother after that had happened for the third time, but she wasn't a birthing parent either at that point.)

There are two aspects to look at.

1. The woman’s preference - on a personal level she is, of course, allowed to describe herself how she wishes. There is no necessity for her to have either the term mother or birthing parent imposed upon her.

1. Legal protections - if for example, this woman required time off work to recover, there are legal protections for pregnant women, so that she would not suffer any workplace detriment. These policies are usually part of umbrella protections for pregnant women and women on maternity leave (ie mothers), but she can exercise these rights without defining herself as a mother or birthing parent.

I was under the impression that "mother" is a legal matter. All children legally have (or had) a mother if they were born in the UK because a "mother" must be named on the birth certificate - regardless of whether the birth parent is female. As per the Freddy McConnell court case; he is named as the "mother" on his child's birth certificate.

Of course, the Freddy McConnell case was in England. If the "birthing parent" nomenclature is simply in Scottish NHS guidance, for example, healthcare is a devolved matter.

I really couldn’t care less.

Mother.

Birthing parent is not only a lie, it’s incredibly offensive to women. Only women give birth.

a "mother" must be named on the birth certificate - regardless of whether the birth parent is female

Only females can give birth.

Neither. I have a name, just use it.

I assume different people will prefer different terms and quite rightly, should be asked which suits them.

Birthing parent is not only a lie, it’s incredibly offensive to women. Only women give birth.

It isn’t offensive to me. Do you often feel you have the right to speak for all women?

Mother

@peachgreen

To be clear, what we're talking about here is governmental policy documents which are specifically talking about people who have given birth. There are mothers who don't give birth, and people who give birth who don't call themselves mothers (including those who are giving their children up for adoption). Therefore, in formal policy documents, "birthing parent" is the most accurate term. Because it is not policy about being a mother. It is not applicable to all mothers. It is applicable to all people who have given (or are going to give) birth.

To me this discussion isn't even about transgender people. It is about the accuracy of language in legally or legislatively binding, documents. And in my experience (as someone who writes said documents for a living!), the more accurate and specific you can be, the better.

Surely birth mother is sufficiently accurate. Other mother would be step/adoptive/foster etc.

You can be a mother without growing and birthing a child, and you can grow and birth a child without being a mother.

The first part of your sentence is correct. The second part is not; you would still be the child's mother when you gave birth to it even though you may not go on to be a mother in terms of the ongoing care of the child. But then, in those terms, you wouldn't be the child's parent either!

I'm curious to know what they would suggest calling an adoptive mother? Would they be non-birthing parent aswell? So the child would have two non birthing parents?

If adopted by a couple, they would normally have 3 non-birthing parents. However they would have 2 birth parents and, for want of a better word, 2 non-birth parents. Confusing, isn't it?

Mother.

Apart from anything else, 'birthing parent' is a weird use of English. I was 'birthing' during labour but that was long ago.

@CecilyP

You can be a mother without growing and birthing a child, and you can grow and birth a child without being a mother.

The first part of your sentence is correct. The second part is not; you would still be the child's mother when you gave birth to it even though you may not go on to be a mother in terms of the ongoing care of the child. But then, in those terms, you wouldn't be the child's parent either!

I would challenge that depending on what you consider a mother to be?

I would challenge that depending on what you consider a mother to be?

She would be the child's birth mother. Not the child's "birthing parent". She wouldn't be the child's parent after the adoption but she would always be their birth mother.