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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think GPs should do their job

579 replies

Wotnokids · 14/10/2021 06:35

Just heard the news that £250million is to be made available to GPs to 'increase the amount of face to face appointments'. AIBU to think this is just extra cash for doing their job?

OP posts:
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Plotato · 14/10/2021 15:31

[quote Travelledtheworld]@brittleheadgirl but did you spend £45,000 in university fees to obtain your qualification. Do you have to make complex decisions throughout the day and do people lives depend upon the decisions you make?[/quote]
I don't agree with Brittlehead's point but re money most teachers will have spent a minimum of £36k on fees if qualifying in the past few years, so not a massive difference.

MrsMattMurdock · 14/10/2021 15:34

The OP must be on a wind-up. Nobody can be that wilfully ignorant and completely devoid of any desire to even attempt to understand the various issues.

heythereamigo · 14/10/2021 15:35

I think that the Government are doing a great job of pulling the wool over people’s eyes.

Why are GPs leaving in droves if they’re being paid >£100k to sit on their arses not seeing patients? There’s two issues here. 1) patients are not getting the easy access to their GP that they would like, and often need. 2) GPs are working hours so long and hard that they’re walking away, burnt out despite their good pay.

This is a system failure, and our government is doing everything they can to distract the public from the fact that they’ve broken the system through years of underfunding. But then our government is privatising the NHS by stealth, so it suits them to turn the public against their doctors so that privatisation is accepted when it comes.

namechange30455 · 14/10/2021 15:41

@Wotnokids

Just heard the news that £250million is to be made available to GPs to 'increase the amount of face to face appointments'. AIBU to think this is just extra cash for doing their job?
Isn't this a bit like saying that giving any money for new school places is just "extra money for the schools doing their job", and they should just teach in classes of 60 instead? The problem is that there isn't enough capacity in the system.
Eve · 14/10/2021 15:44

@MrsMattMurdock

The OP must be on a wind-up. Nobody can be that wilfully ignorant and completely devoid of any desire to even attempt to understand the various issues.
... or they are a bot
Whycangirlsbesonasty · 14/10/2021 15:48

But what I am saying is if someone wants to work part time they should be prevented from studying medicine. There are plenty of other careers out there. Cause us paying to train them is a waste of money otherwise. Some jobs are simply incompatible with part time working. Medicine should be one of them.

HorsesHoundsandHills · 14/10/2021 15:49

Where does the £250K figure for training come from please? How much of that is actually GP Registrar pay, for which they do plenty of service provision in addition to training time?

When I was at medical school 20 odd years ago, no-one wanted to be a GP, as it was long hours for little pay and very little respect. The government of the day negotiated a contract that removed OOH responsibility from practices, pay and conditions were improved, and GP was actively marketed as a ‘family friendly career choice’. Lots of women signed up on that basis, and by the mid-2000s GP training was over-subscribed and very competitive.

Since then, money has been clawed back by the government, and a vast amount of what used to be secondary care has been handed over to primary care, as inpatient beds have been cut to the bone whilst secondary care has become increasingly specialised. People are living longer but not healthier, so complexity and demand have increased. Therefore working conditions have deteriorated, to the point where people are leaving.

The last thing we have to tempt junior docs into the speciality is the idea that it is ‘family friendly’, although now all hospital specialities allow part time training and working too, so that’s less of a carrot. All these people saying ‘ban part time working’, most GPs would just resign from the NHS at that point, there are plenty of other places and jobs where our skills would be valued. We’re mostly still here out of a sense of duty to our patients.

Whycangirlsbesonasty · 14/10/2021 15:51

I’m not saying van part time working now, but van it in the future - sure! Because if you are working 3.5 days a week and 50 hours, is it not better if you were working 5 shorter days? Would that not be less stressful? Making the career more attractive?

EgonSpengler2020 · 14/10/2021 15:56

@Whycangirlsbesonasty

But what I am saying is if someone wants to work part time they should be prevented from studying medicine. There are plenty of other careers out there. Cause us paying to train them is a waste of money otherwise. Some jobs are simply incompatible with part time working. Medicine should be one of them.
Maybe all those medics who have gone part time should quit instead. Also in order to reduce the risk of any medics wanting to practice part time we should probably ban women from studying medicine.
Goldi321 · 14/10/2021 16:00

You can’t just ban people from less than full time working (also, I work 80% LTFT, I still work more hours than friends in other sectors who work full time and do a substantial amount of work in my own time). You would be discriminating against mothers, single parents, people with disabilities. We’ve worked SO hard to gain protection through employment laws. People are totally missing the point, demand outstrips GPs and the government is not willing to fund primary care appropriately.

Hospital waiting lists are insane. Over a year for appointments, why don’t we ban hospital drs from working PT? It’s the same rationale just GPs are easy targets because we are the most accessible.

HorsesHoundsandHills · 14/10/2021 16:01

Thing is, there is no upper limit on demand in primary care, so it might start off being 40 hours over 5 days, but we know from experience that it would gradually creep up, and then there’d be no mechanism for a Dr to control their workload to a manageable level. Back when medicine was purely the preserve of workaholic men, that did not improve the patient’s experience, just people didn’t used to dare complain!

Also, every room in our surgery is filled every session. Lack of space is a major issue in every practice I know, so we’d need to build a whole load more surgeries to accommodate the GPs.

Out of interest, how much do you think is a fair wage for a person with AAA at A-level, two undergraduate degrees, multiple postgraduate professional qualifications, a Master’s degree and 16 years experience doing complex work with high responsibility?

Goldi321 · 14/10/2021 16:02

I would quit. Funnily enough I’m not prepared to work 8-7pm with a baby, nursery isn’t open this long and we don’t have family nearby because I have been shunted around the country for my training!

Whycangirlsbesonasty · 14/10/2021 16:05

I’m happy with hospital drs not working part time too. Some jobs just aren’t suited for part time. Look at being in the armed services etc. Just now we have a situation where we make a massive investment in training people, taking places away from possible medical students, for them to turn around and say nah, don’t want to work full time.

Parker231 · 14/10/2021 16:09

@Whycangirlsbesonasty

But what I am saying is if someone wants to work part time they should be prevented from studying medicine. There are plenty of other careers out there. Cause us paying to train them is a waste of money otherwise. Some jobs are simply incompatible with part time working. Medicine should be one of them.
If you’re saying doctors and GP’s can’t work part time, you are going to make the situation worse by loosing large numbers of the profession and put off future students. Probably also discriminatory as more women work part time than men.
Whoopsmahoot · 14/10/2021 16:16

Can’t fault my surgery at all - in the space of 10days four times I have had to call to speak to a gp the same day about my son. Twice I was told to go straight to the surgery to be seen and checked. We then had to go straight to hospital to be admitted. I have found telephone appointments to be great but if we need to be seen then we’re told to come immediately and we’ll be seen. I may be lucky where I am but in a crisis I have found them fabulous. The local chemist - that’s another issue! 🤣

FarDownTheRiver · 14/10/2021 16:27

@Whycangirlsbesonasty

I’m happy with hospital drs not working part time too. Some jobs just aren’t suited for part time. Look at being in the armed services etc. Just now we have a situation where we make a massive investment in training people, taking places away from possible medical students, for them to turn around and say nah, don’t want to work full time.
No, I think they should be allowed to decide to work part time present and future. What we should be doing is making sure it is an appealing job and increasing the quota who can train in the UK.

I remember in college someone said they would only ever be a doctor in the US despite the fees. It’s an international market and a sought after skill set anywhere in the world.

BananaBlue · 14/10/2021 16:30

Are GPs working PT?

Because 60 hrs in 3.5 days does not sound like PT hrs to me.

It amuses me that for any issue bought up some folk are punching down at the folk needed instead of looking at the wider structural issues.

Like govt making certain careers unattractive, harder and/or chronic under funding.

Between Covid and Brexit the goodwill duck tape holding together our health services had been exposed and folk are blaming the duck tape, not the person who put it there when other options were available.

LimitIsUp · 14/10/2021 16:58

@Whycangirlsbesonasty

I’m happy with hospital drs not working part time too. Some jobs just aren’t suited for part time. Look at being in the armed services etc. Just now we have a situation where we make a massive investment in training people, taking places away from possible medical students, for them to turn around and say nah, don’t want to work full time.
Rather relieved that you have no actual influence on public policy
Parker231 · 14/10/2021 17:09

Four out of five areas of the U.K. have less GP’s than five years ago even though the population has increased.

southcarolina · 14/10/2021 17:36

@Whycangirlsbesonasty

I’m happy with hospital drs not working part time too. Some jobs just aren’t suited for part time. Look at being in the armed services etc. Just now we have a situation where we make a massive investment in training people, taking places away from possible medical students, for them to turn around and say nah, don’t want to work full time.
I'm a part time doctor, want me to leave? Bloody feel like doing it sometimes Grin
southcarolina · 14/10/2021 17:38

@Whycangirlsbesonasty

But what I am saying is if someone wants to work part time they should be prevented from studying medicine. There are plenty of other careers out there. Cause us paying to train them is a waste of money otherwise. Some jobs are simply incompatible with part time working. Medicine should be one of them.
Just checking that nurses, social workers and teachers are also not allowed to be part time as well, yes? Because you pay for their training and we don't have enough of them too Halo
aftonwater · 14/10/2021 17:41

But what I am saying is if someone wants to work part time they should be prevented from studying medicine. There are plenty of other careers out there. Cause us paying to train them is a waste of money otherwise. Some jobs are simply incompatible with part time working. Medicine should be one of them.

So you're asking a 17 year old who is applying to university to decide that they will never work part time? In fact, most teenagers who are applying for medicine have been working towards it since they were about 14.

mbosnz · 14/10/2021 17:43

Um. So, there's a nationwide (well, actually, worldwide) shortage of GP's, many are burning out, getting out, or retiring, and some people's solution is to say that the ones that are left should quit, if they're not prepared to work more than 40-60 hours a week? I imagine that then those that were left (not many, if any), would say, 'bugger this for a game of soldiers, I'm not killing myself for this sorry unappreciative lot', and bugger off too.

It sounds about as sensible as drumming out the backbone of hospitality, seasonal workers, caregivers, nurses, doctors. . . oh wait.

FixTheBone · 14/10/2021 17:55

@LakieLady

If the NHS isn't going to be funded and managed properly, then we need to adjust expectations, but as it is they're just increasing

I don't think it's "expectations" that are increasing, but need, and funding has not kept pace with the healthcare needs of an increasingly elderly, and poor, population.

I had a partial knee replacement a week ago. I need an appointment with a GP practice for a "wound review" and to have the clips removed. I am staying with friends while I recover, because I wouldn't be able to manage alone at home, so have tried to get local practices to accept a temporary registration and make an appointment with a nurse to do the necessary. Several practices in this large town in the SE are full, none of the others can give me a nurse appointment within 3 weeks.

This is not an "expectation", it's a need. And it would appear it's a need that can't be met in a timely fashion. What's the point in carrying out surgery when the necessary aftercare is inaccessible?

Meanwhile, nurses are leaving the NHS in droves because of the hours, the pressure, the pay and the lack of respect in the way they are treated.

Actually, it's not a need.

It's probably the hospital trying to push more work onto the GP.

Very few, in fact no CCG I have ever worked in has had a contract where routine post-operative wound care is part of the GP contract, in fact, it's almost always explicitly stated to be the treating organisation's responsibility.

Another big culprit is specialist tests, investigations and prescriptions - Gp refers a patient to orthopaedics with hip pain, turns out it was referred from the back - by the letter of the law, that person should refer onto spinal services, organise an MRI etc, but they often just refer back to the GP to do the extra work.

Doesn't stop people taking the piss

FixTheBone · 14/10/2021 17:57

@Peaplant20

I’ve put yanbu as I think it’s good they’re getting extra money however I just don’t think it’s right that appointments still aren’t all face to face and I’ve heard of too many stories of things getting missed because a telephone appointment was done. I just don’t think it’s a job that can be done over the phone/ internet. IMO you should be able to ring and they ask if you want phone or in person appointment as a lot of people would be happy with the phone - eg if it’s a problem that can easily be dealt with over the phone, and would be a lot easier for people than taking the morning or afternoon off work, so this would still alleviate some pressure on appointments, and then if you want to be seen you ask to be seen, rather than having to justify or ‘push’ for an in person appointment.
Governments own figures:

only 10% of patients specifically request face to face appointments.

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