Charity - what is your feeling?

[Orangejuicemarathoner]

I have been active in many charities for a long time.

There was a time when you could go around asking for contributions and get a "yes" or a "no".

These days I keep getting "OMG- how racist/patronising/politically incorrect/non-woke is that, you are a terrible person".

I don't get it really. Poorer people need help and support from richer people. Sometimes the poorer people are next door, sometimes hundreds of miles away and sometimes on another continent. Sometimes in the past, the poorer person has been me and I have needed and accepted charity

Why have people stopped thinking sharing is a good thing?

I know some charities are ineffective, and some unhelpful, maybe even damaging. I am not talking about specifics. I am talking about the general principle, if you know the charity is effective.

YABU - charitable giving is evil - stop it at once

YANBU - altruism is important

It's not as simple as YABU or YANBU though is it?
I give to 3 charities monthly by direct debit (local hospice, MSF and the RSPB). I donate substantially to the poppy appeal.
I want nothing at all to do with some charities like Samaritans purse or even the national dementia charity that I used to work for and was totally useless.
I work for the NHS and also work around 20 hours a month for free (largely because people turn up late for appointments and I end up fitting them in) so that is in effect a charitable donation.
I would probably donate to you for an easy life but to be honest, I admire those that pull you up.

"No, there is no problem with the charity, and there is no problem with how I ask either. Its a change in how "woke" people view charity, as insulting to the receiver."

You should raise money for animal charities. No one would say the animals would feel insulted. And the charities would be very grateful for your endeavours.

@HoardingSamphireSaurus

There you go OP!

You can see the push back against charitable endeavours in almost every post here.

It isn't even like the Live Aid fatigue. It's more personal, it's YOU!

YOU are selfish
YOU just want all the applause
It's all just a PR stunt
YOU are a serial charity hugger
Being asked face to face is like emotional blackmail
The charity is absolutely guranteed to racist/sexist/homophobic etc

I work in the charity sector. I volunteer at a foodbank; I monitor funding streams, look at funding applications; I sit on the cooperative board of a group of local community charities (from foodbank to DV services; cooking clubs to dbt management, that kind of thing).

And I too get all of the above just because I breath, apparently! I get it. Really I do. Everyone is sick and tired of hearing about charity walks, donkeys, cats, dogs etc etc etc

But it really wouldn't hurt people to take a breath and bloody listen (or in this case read) before they saunter in and plop down their biases, prejudices and assumptions.

Why do you expect people to 'bloody listen' or 'be unbiased' when it's you asking for their time and money? Why are you owed anything from them? It's this attitude that's annoying people. You can't understand why anybody else would give anything other than a positive response, and a 'well done you insert halo here'.

I can't speak for everyone else but I donate a significant amount. I tell people politely to go away but they don't take no for an answer, and proceed to continue trying to convince me. My very rude answer might sounds prejudiced, but it makes them go away. If they had just listened when I said no the first time I wouldn't have gotten such a response.

tl'dr : If you force people to feel like they need to justify themselves, then you won't get such pushback.

if you don't* force

*wouldn't have given such a response jeez

I think a lot of people are wary of giving to charities these days. My own experiences make me very wary indeed.

When my mother in law died, it fell to me to sort everything out, she was a calm, sensible lady so I was astonished to find that she was giving more to charities than she received every month and eating through her savings at an alarming rate. Tens of thousands had gone. She would have had nothing left within months.

Every day letters arrived with pictures on the envelopes of children or animals saying things like "Emergency please save me" or "I will die if you don't help me." It was appalling. She had loads of direct debits to these charities as well.

I believe it all started six years earlier when she donated money in memory of her deceased husband to pay for a child in Africa to have an operation on a cleft palate . That charity must have sold her details to other charities and it snowballed from there.

Charities were bleeding her dry and I hate to think how many other old people have fallen prey to them. A couple of years ago I answered an appeal to donate a blanket to a Syrian child by texting a number, for the next four months I was bombarded with texts and phone calls wanting more money. Never again!

I only ever donate to animal charities and hospices. I can think of a few causes that I would never ever donate to but I would never be rude or denigrate those charities unless they were aggressive. Well done to you for getting involved in causes you believe in.

Countries have space programs and people starving in their streets at the same time.

India's space programme is going to save us all nxt time we are endangered by a Near Earth Object. They are the fastest, most efficient and best space programme.

And yes, they have people starving, and yes, I am happy to donate to charities supporting them. We have a space programme and people dying of hypothermia on the street. And I support them as well., even though our space programme is a pale shadow of India's and costs us hundreds of times more

so I really dont get you point here

We have a select few charities we support, animal ones, where all the staff are volunteers so I know the money raised goes towards a cause rather than a salary.

Why do you expect people to 'bloody listen' or 'be unbiased' when it's you asking for their time and money? Why are you owed anything from them?

I didn't say I was, or the charities I work for. I am just bemused and saddened by the very attitude you are displaying!

It's this attitude that's annoying people. You can't understand why anybody else would give anything other than a positive response, and a 'well done you insert halo here'.

Mmm! I can see that you also prescribe to the idea that anyone who does any charity work is looking for the plaudits.

I can't speak for everyone else but I donate a significant amount.

Do I applaud here? [Hands @TractorAndHeadphones a halo]

I tell people politely to go away but they don't take no for an answer, and proceed to continue trying to convince me. My very rude answer might sounds prejudiced, but it makes them go away. If they had just listened when I said no the first time I wouldn't have gotten such a response.

Well, I think I covered that in the post you quoted!

tl'dr :

Oh the irony, given you seem not to have read the whole of the post you quoted!

If you force people to feel like they need to justify themselves, then you won't get such pushback.

Not me Guv! Unless you think that because someone works/volunteers for any charity they aren't allowed to feel pissed off when someone chooses to blow off steam at them!

You don't have to be so angry, reactive. You could just walk on, scroll down, etc.

After all, I haven't asked you for anything, my hands have not reached for your wallet!

From these responses I can see that the attitude I have come up against is not universal by any means. Which is nice to know! Lots of people still supporting lots of charities

@Cocomarine

Just some more on unintended consequences… I listened to a really interesting programme a couple of years back - Radio 4. They were talking about the impact of second hand donation clothing on the local economy.

Actually, I just found an article:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2016/may/04/east-africa-kenya-ban-second-hand-clothing-imports-west

Basically, importing charity donations and market traders selling them employs far less people than a domestic clothing industry.

My point isn’t that that is right or wrong… but it’s that I think we’re increasingly aware that just throwing money at a charity isn’t always the solution, and sometimes it makes things worse.

That’s no reason to be rude to a collector of course. But I don’t think people’s cynicism is uncharitable, and I don’t think it’s woke bullshit either.

I actually did my university dissertation on impact accounting. Many 'developing country' charities not only don't solve the problem they actually make it worse like you said.

The most organic way to raise these countries out of poverty btw is through commerce and trade protectionism - which the WTO doesn't like. Also to allow people to handle their own corrupt governments who steal a lot of international aid. These countries aren't poor they just have their priorities wrong.

Even domestic charities have a lot of room for skimming off the top.

Conclusion : I only donate to carefully researched charities. Why would I believe anybody else - unless they had credentials of a similar standard to me?

@HoardingSamphireSaurus

Why do you expect people to 'bloody listen' or 'be unbiased' when it's you asking for their time and money? Why are you owed anything from them?

I didn't say I was, or the charities I work for. I am just bemused and saddened by the very attitude you are displaying!

It's this attitude that's annoying people. You can't understand why anybody else would give anything other than a positive response, and a 'well done you insert halo here'.

Mmm! I can see that you also prescribe to the idea that anyone who does any charity work is looking for the plaudits.

I can't speak for everyone else but I donate a significant amount.

Do I applaud here? [Hands @TractorAndHeadphones a halo]

I tell people politely to go away but they don't take no for an answer, and proceed to continue trying to convince me. My very rude answer might sounds prejudiced, but it makes them go away. If they had just listened when I said no the first time I wouldn't have gotten such a response.

Well, I think I covered that in the post you quoted!

tl'dr :

Oh the irony, given you seem not to have read the whole of the post you quoted!

If you force people to feel like they need to justify themselves, then you won't get such pushback.

Not me Guv! Unless you think that because someone works/volunteers for any charity they aren't allowed to feel pissed off when someone chooses to blow off steam at them!

You don't have to be so angry, reactive. You could just walk on, scroll down, etc.

After all, I haven't asked you for anything, my hands have not reached for your wallet!

Wowow - you call me angry and reactive, but you've dissected my post and written an essay? Carry on, you're just proving my point and providing amazing entertainment. This is why I'm still on MN

Yes! It's an irritating habit of mine. I like to dissect a post. You took a long time to write it, it seemed churlish to ignore any of it, especially as I was, in part, bemoaning the fact that you seem to have ignored part of mine.

To be fair, the only difference is you quoted me in one slab and I quoted you by the paragraph!

Happy to have entertained!

My most sincere apologies for not having the same standard of credentials, by the way!

@Orangejuicemarathoner
our space programme is a pale shadow of India's and costs us hundreds of times more

Indian space programme budget is $4 billion. If we just spent a hundred times more that would mean we're spending $400billion. If we were spending 100s times more we'd be spending in the trillions. Our national debt is 2 trillion. Let's cut our space programme and pay that off.
Honestly, I don't know why I'm not prime minister really.

@HoardingSamphireSaurus

Yes! It's an irritating habit of mine. I like to dissect a post. You took a long time to write it, it seemed churlish to ignore any of it, especially as I was, in part, bemoaning the fact that you seem to have ignored part of mine.

To be fair, the only difference is you quoted me in one slab and I quoted you by the paragraph!

Happy to have entertained!

My most sincere apologies for not having the same standard of credentials, by the way!

You're forgiven - don't worry there are people like me to enlighten everyone, so you can relax and have a cup of tea :)

I shall take that most 'umbly.

[Slopes off to the Woman's Area of the 'ouse and pops the kettle on!]

[quote madisonbridges]@Orangejuicemarathoner
our space programme is a pale shadow of India's and costs us hundreds of times more

Indian space programme budget is $4 billion. If we just spent a hundred times more that would mean we're spending $400billion. If we were spending 100s times more we'd be spending in the trillions. Our national debt is 2 trillion. Let's cut our space programme and pay that off.
Honestly, I don't know why I'm not prime minister really.[/quote]
but look at what they achieve for the money! I think yes, there would be an argument for cutting our space programme to fund India's.

We need successful space programmes, or we will eventually go the same way as the dinosaurs

@Orangejuicemarathoner

Countries have space programs and people starving in their streets at the same time.

India's space programme is going to save us all nxt time we are endangered by a Near Earth Object. They are the fastest, most efficient and best space programme.

And yes, they have people starving, and yes, I am happy to donate to charities supporting them. We have a space programme and people dying of hypothermia on the street. And I support them as well., even though our space programme is a pale shadow of India's and costs us hundreds of times more

so I really dont get you point here

This just makes me laugh as someone of Indian descent , from a lower caste who still has family there A lot of India's problems at this point is due to political will. It's the country with the 5th largest GDP. Sadly a lot of money is lost by money, politicking and the constraints of the caste system. Did you know that the Indian government actually buys grains from farmers to stabilise their income from crops - but they only see very little of that money as it's all stolen by middlemen? All of that is changing but again an organic change , slowly. Much like the U.K from not allowing women to vote to the country you have now.

@Orangejuicemarathoner.
Still, I'd rather pay off the national debt than put 3 people in space. 🦕 🦖 🐊

The charity I was trying to raise money for is an educational charity in Malawi

Perhaps some potential donors would rather you asked why Malawi's government aren't funding education properly? They might even have read this: foreignpolicy.com/2021/05/21/how-corruption-derails-development-in-malawi/

And yes, I'm heavily involved in charities myself, but I do prefer local ones where you have a chance of knowing what's happening, rather than chucking money into a bottomless well in the vain hope it might make some difference and won't end up in someone's Swiss bank account

I donate regularly to the charities I have chosen, particularly autism and animals. I made a decision a few years ago that, if a friend asked for sponsorship or donations, I would stick to the same amount every time as a one off rather than having to think about it much. I have no hesitation in telling chuggers to do one

My husband's job involved him working for and with agencies and charities. He asked the charity how much per pound would be directly spent on the children. That was the answer. He chose a different charity to work with the agency. It was over 30 years ago. Do they have to prove percentages now?

@Maestoso

My husband's job involved him working for and with agencies and charities. He asked the charity how much per pound would be directly spent on the children. That was the answer. He chose a different charity to work with the agency. It was over 30 years ago. Do they have to prove percentages now?

The problem is that it depends what a charity's objectives are. Some children's charities might be solely hands on but others might spend part of their income on campaigning for change, etc. So it's very difficult to compare. Also small local charities are much more able to pick and choose what they want to do whilst national charities end up picking up the slack of things smaller charities don't want or can't do. There's no shade on any of the organisations but they're set up for different purposes or rather maybe those different purposes develop over time. Like everything you have to dug behind headlines to find the real truth.

@Maestoso

My husband's job involved him working for and with agencies and charities. He asked the charity how much per pound would be directly spent on the children. That was the answer. He chose a different charity to work with the agency. It was over 30 years ago. Do they have to prove percentages now?

@Maestoso yes they do. It's a legal obligation to produce annual reports detailing exactly how money is spent. It's a common statement thrown around by many people that they don't give to charity because 'only a couple of pence gets where it's supposed to', but if you actually look up the charities they're talking about it's BS and just something they've heard and continue to spout. I would encourage anyone to look up a charity's annual report to see how money is spent to make informed decisions.