Charity - what is your feeling?

[Orangejuicemarathoner]

I have been active in many charities for a long time.

There was a time when you could go around asking for contributions and get a "yes" or a "no".

These days I keep getting "OMG- how racist/patronising/politically incorrect/non-woke is that, you are a terrible person".

I don't get it really. Poorer people need help and support from richer people. Sometimes the poorer people are next door, sometimes hundreds of miles away and sometimes on another continent. Sometimes in the past, the poorer person has been me and I have needed and accepted charity

Why have people stopped thinking sharing is a good thing?

I know some charities are ineffective, and some unhelpful, maybe even damaging. I am not talking about specifics. I am talking about the general principle, if you know the charity is effective.

YABU - charitable giving is evil - stop it at once

YANBU - altruism is important

Just some more on unintended consequences… I listened to a really interesting programme a couple of years back - Radio 4. They were talking about the impact of second hand donation clothing on the local economy.

Actually, I just found an article:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2016/may/04/east-africa-kenya-ban-second-hand-clothing-imports-west

Basically, importing charity donations and market traders selling them employs far less people than a domestic clothing industry.

My point isn’t that that is right or wrong… but it’s that I think we’re increasingly aware that just throwing money at a charity isn’t always the solution, and sometimes it makes things worse.

That’s no reason to be rude to a collector of course. But I don’t think people’s cynicism is uncharitable, and I don’t think it’s woke bullshit either.

If it was something I wasn't aware of and may be interested in I may listen, but not if you came to my door or blocked my way in the street or other such aggressive tactics

That helps me understand it a bit more. The comparison/objection always comes back to chuggers and their dogged persistence, DDs etc.

@Pedalpushers

I've worked in charities all my life and it's well known that nearly everyone who works for one could make more money doing the same thing somewhere else. Charities pay a relative market-rate pittance to most of their staff, including those directors making six figures.

I'm a 'woke' sort of person and while I definitely think many are waking up (ha) to the harm done by charities eg for gap year students to go and badly build a toilet in Africa so they can boost their CV, the sort of charity you're describing is exactly what most people think charity in the region should be like, so I don't understand the attitudes you're receiving and it's certainly not a widespread opinion.

I’ve worked in the voluntary sector for quite a while, I hate the sector.

Some of the worst people I know have ran VCSE organisations, treat staff like shit, double funding projects, lying about project outcomes. I honestly think that people don’t understand that Kids Company is the tip of the iceberg. I’ve just become so disillusioned, for every bit of good I see - under the surface there seems to be just this crust of shit weighing it down,

This is just my opinion, not backed up by hard cash numbers…

But I think the phenomenon of the last - 20? - maybe years of the charity sky drive / trek has put some people off giving. It has me, and anecdotally I’m not the only one I know to say it!

No, I’m not paying for you to trek the Great Wall of China.

Even if the reality is the charity still makes a huge amount, it just feels like I’m sponsoring a selfish act, not an altruistic one. There was a shift, at least in my conscious, in the last 20 years away from “sponsor me to do something hard” to “sponsor me to do something I want to do for fun”.

Obviously we’ve always had sponsored beans in a bath -it’s not always been serious challenges! But overall, this type of fundraising now really turns me off.

Your options are too simplistic. Its complicated, as others have said.
All the big charities are run like businesses, with shareholders, fancy headquarters etc. People don't want to fund that.
There are so many charities these days, and we are bombarded with "sob stories" for want of a better more compassionate phrase. People have become desensitised to it. Plus they are not able to see any improvements so they think what is the point.
This is the basis for the popularity of giving to food banks, we can visualise our tins of soup being used by local people in need.

Also agree with @Cocomarine. If you want to do 100 squats a day or not drink for a month, just do it I'm not paying you.
A friend of mine freely admitted she was doing the refugee rations challenge so she could lose a few pounds.

@Janaih

Your options are too simplistic. Its complicated, as others have said. All the big charities are run like businesses, with shareholders, fancy headquarters etc. People don't want to fund that. There are so many charities these days, and we are bombarded with "sob stories" for want of a better more compassionate phrase. People have become desensitised to it. Plus they are not able to see any improvements so they think what is the point. This is the basis for the popularity of giving to food banks, we can visualise our tins of soup being used by local people in need.

@Janaih Just because a large charity is run like a “big business” doesn’t mean they’re less effective. In fact, because they are so large they can often negotiate for better costs for materials and services they need to provide meaning they can have a big impact. There have been huge progress because of charities but because there hasn’t been a cure for cancer and children are still dying of malnutrition, people assume there hasn’t been progress, when in fact there is lots of evidence there has been.

@Cocomarine

I think that people get bored information (true and false!) now than ever before - through social media. A lot of it sound bites rather than well thought out debate.

As a result, I think we’ve moved away from “charity = good” to “charity might be bad”. Either because of what it does, or unintended consequences.

Here were my first two thoughts about “Malawi educational charity”:

1. Is it one of these things where wealthy white kid gets to go and build a school, amazing experience for them, gap year jinks and UCAS bragging rights? Because no, I don’t want to support Tarquin’s holiday thanks - even less so when I know that community involvement is important for their long term commitment to the project.

1. Is there a religious element? (I’m sure some religion affiliated charities are amazing, but I don’t want to get involved in one that proselytises.

I’m not accusing your Malawi charity of either - but explaining that I wouldn’t just think “oh that’s nice.” What you call “woke”, others call, “questioning, informed, caring.”

no, no religious element, and no volunteers from the UK except those with teaching skills, and only when those teaching skills are not available locally No building done by volunteers - building done by local tradesmen

I don't believe in supporting international charities abroad. I mean who are we to tell other human beings what they should have or how to live their lives? And then thereis the cost of running such big operations. (I know it is far more complex than that.)
There are plenty of local and national charities that need our help and were funds can be traced quicker and easier.

So many charities are badly run or even worse are fruadulent that I no longer feel bad about not giving to them. I am now willing to offer my time when I can help but beyond that, I am not interested in most of them. I have come to the conclusion that if I want to make a difference in this world then I have to do it myself and not rely on giving other people money to do it.

@Janaih

Also agree with *@Cocomarine*. If you want to do 100 squats a day or not drink for a month, just do it I'm not paying you. A friend of mine freely admitted she was doing the refugee rations challenge so she could lose a few pounds.

That refugee rations one is a great example of what I was saying earlier about social media and being exposed to more opinions than ever before - be that right or wrong opinions!

In the land of Facebook, you are one scroll away from someone commenting, “isn’t that really patronising, pretending like you’re hungry? Actually, eat a bit less today is nothing like living in a camp, members of your family killed, no future that you can see, frightened.”

I don’t think that kind of challenge is “woke”.

My friend thought his daughter was amazing because she did a sleep out for the homeless.

The consistent of being organised midsummer, held in a secure football stadium, toilets open all night, and yes you slept in a cardboard box shelter - but there was a “decorate your box” competition! And of course your £200 sleeping bag came with you. It was a lovely campfire evening. What the actual fuck has that to do with homelessness?

Now I’m not in the sector. If it works and raises lots of money and only a small % are like me and won’t donate - who am I to say don’t do it?

But I think there are plenty of people in my small % who are jaded about some types of charity requests.

It depends on the charity. For some causes (Cancer in particular) I've stopped giving. There are too many. They could do so much more if they were just one charity, one head office, one CEO wage to pay etc. They are huge businesses. For every pound raised for a huge children's charity, the children got 3p spent on them. 97p supported the organisation. Donations sent abroad often don't get to those in need. Countries have space programs and people starving in their streets at the same time. And we're preyed upon to relieve the suffering of people that their own government's ignore. There's been huge scandals of aged people being caught by unscrupulous charities begging incessantly. Chuggers, day time TV advertising and email after email from fucking marathon runners at work. It's hardly surprising that people are becoming reluctant to give.

I think in a western society there shouldn't be a need for charities and that charities plug the gaps in an underfunded health and welfare system.

Also I think that the idea that people who work in charities shouldn't get paid appropriately is bananas. If I'm an accountant in a children's charity (I'm not) I should be paid appropriately and not expected to work under market rate because it's a charity.

International charities are different I think and I see your point about people trying to be "woke" and thinking they are saving those people from a white saviour complex, when in reality the charity recipient doesn't have the privilege to consider the motives of the giver and does it really matter the motives of the giver?

[quote Puffinhead]@Gonnagetgoing, maybe so for some. But I’m talking about small charities in the sensory impaired sector (no shops/retail) with small staff numbers that are literally sat on millions while the national lottery hand money over to them.[/quote]
When we've applied for funding we've had to provide accounts. Wouldn't a small charity with millions in reserves get asked questions about that?

And don't they have an AGM? We've had to explain in detail tiny underspends on projects to attendees of our AGM - and justify our modest reserves repeatedly. And compared to stories I've heard from other organisations we get off rather easily.

@Orangejuicemarathoner but it doesn’t matter that your Malawi charity is not what I describe. I already said that I’m not accusing it. I just wanted to give you some insight that for some of us, the juxtaposition of “education Malawi charity” = rich white kids on a gap year jolly.

That’s before you even get into debate about “white saviour” or whether it takes work away from locals. Ethics aside, it’s just a “sod off and pay for your own holidays” reaction. Those build-a-school trips to me are exactly like unpaid internships - a rich privilege.

I think what has changed in recent years is - sorry to mention it again! - widening access to opinion online. So now you see someone backing up your gut feel that it’s rich person’s fun, AND you start to understand the wider ethical issues.

I think people are more cynical and more questioning of charities (not charity!) now - and that’s a good thing.

But shouldn’t be expressed rudely to you.

I think in a western society there shouldn't be a need for charities and that charities plug the gaps in an underfunded health and welfare system.

Yep! Absolutely.

Meanwhile people here in the UK are in dire need.

I can't square that circle.

From what you have said the problem will be linked to actual or perceived “white saviourism”. Which might be how the fundraising is presented as much as the actual work the charity does. If it looks like poor uneducated black kids in the third world with no agency being rescued by educated rich white folk, then that will be your problem.

As a CEO of a charity, no I've never had those responses.

@Maestoso

It depends on the charity. For some causes (Cancer in particular) I've stopped giving. There are too many. They could do so much more if they were just one charity, one head office, one CEO wage to pay etc. They are huge businesses. For every pound raised for a huge children's charity, the children got 3p spent on them. 97p supported the organisation. Donations sent abroad often don't get to those in need. Countries have space programs and people starving in their streets at the same time. And we're preyed upon to relieve the suffering of people that their own government's ignore. There's been huge scandals of aged people being caught by unscrupulous charities begging incessantly. Chuggers, day time TV advertising and email after email from fucking marathon runners at work. It's hardly surprising that people are becoming reluctant to give.

@Maestoso do you have evidence for your claim about 3p going to the children and 97p being spent on supporting the organisation? Charities have to publish their accounts and that number does not sound right. They would be under investigation by the Charity Commission.

Also, I take your point there are a number of charities which seem to do the same thing. For example, Breast Cancer charities. But it’s unrealistic to think there should be one cancer charity only for every cancer. There needs to be different charities to specialise in different cancers, as there is not one size fits all approach to finding treatments. A number of charities have merged together around Breast Cancer which is great, but I wouldn’t expect a breast cancer charity to merge with say a blood cancer charity. Treatments and needs are very different.

@BringPizza

I actively support a few charities and I think how the vulnerable are treated is a very clear measure of how decent a society really is. However, don’t grab me in the street or bang on my door.

^This - I won't support any Charity that uses chuggers or door knockers (that I know of).

It's the rise in general selfishness. You saw it explode around the time of the EU referendum and 2016 US election, when suddenly a bunch of ordinary people found themselves labelled liberal elite by millionaire public school something-in-the-city cunt Farage and has-an-actual-gold-toilet cunt Trump. Enthusiastically supported by tax dodging millionaires Murdoch, Barclay Brothers, Dacres etc etc.

And you can see it really bed down on these boards over the last few years, when suddenly everything that's not a me first gimme gimme attitude is labelled virtue signalling by people that haven't even thought about what that might mean.

For the hard of thinking, virtue signalling would be, say, working to exit the UK from the EU for a number of years, and then applying for a German (or French*) passport once it happened.

*Farage, allegedly
**Nigel Lawson

Or virtue signalling might also be telling people you're on the side of ordinary working people while cutting taxes at the top tiers and raising National Insurance at the lower tiers. Every Tory government ever.

So you get people who say that altruism is virtue signalling because people want to look good, despite the fact that many people do good without ever talking about it, and regardless of the good that is being done.

It's just witless, willfully moronic viciousness signalling.

@Justcallmebebes

So much scandal surrounding charities recently including financial and sexual exploitation and I think people are also waking up to the fact that a lot of the major charities rely on volunteers to do a lot of the actual hard work whilst those at the top are on obscene salaries.

If you can afford to pay your directors £100,000 a year, you're not having a contribution towards that from me. I'm looking at you Amnesty

This. And also I know of a (smallish, certainly not on the scale of Amnesty) charity locally that pays their CEO in excess of £75K!! 😲

Utterly outrageous, as said CEO is a crock of shit as well!

That stopped me donating to charity.

Is it possible your charity sparked concerns like those around Toms shoes or some food donation programs in which by giving things away for free they are ultimately undercut the local markets and economy and creating a sitution where people must depend on the charity because local businesses have collapsed because they could sell products or services which a charity is giving away for free and the people who had once provided the service the charity has taken over ended up out of work and pushed into poverty.

There are times when charity is good, but generally I think people need to be much more aware that there are complex ripple effects from this sort of giving and it is very easy to end up doing long term harm in the persuit of short term good.

If you want to donate to charity do so.
Don't ask me to donate on your behalf because you walked to the end of the street or did 10 push ups!
I exaggerate but I'm still fed up because I made several donations of 25-50 for people's sponsored activity and I didn't even get a "thanks".
So now my money, my family only.

Personally I will do everything I can to help and support those around me, so friends, family, neighbours, workmates etc.
If I see someone in need and I'm in a position to help either financially or in another way then I will.
I have long realised that I can't make the world a better place but I can make my part of it better. If everyone in the world did this then there would be no need for charity as the money etc would filter through naturally.

I only donate to charities that are close to my heart when I am able but have offered time, equipment skills where I see that I can.