Charity - what is your feeling?

[Orangejuicemarathoner]

I have been active in many charities for a long time.

There was a time when you could go around asking for contributions and get a "yes" or a "no".

These days I keep getting "OMG- how racist/patronising/politically incorrect/non-woke is that, you are a terrible person".

I don't get it really. Poorer people need help and support from richer people. Sometimes the poorer people are next door, sometimes hundreds of miles away and sometimes on another continent. Sometimes in the past, the poorer person has been me and I have needed and accepted charity

Why have people stopped thinking sharing is a good thing?

I know some charities are ineffective, and some unhelpful, maybe even damaging. I am not talking about specifics. I am talking about the general principle, if you know the charity is effective.

YABU - charitable giving is evil - stop it at once

YANBU - altruism is important

@HoardingSamphireSaurus

There you go OP!

You can see the push back against charitable endeavours in almost every post here.

It isn't even like the Live Aid fatigue. It's more personal, it's YOU!

YOU are selfish
YOU just want all the applause
It's all just a PR stunt
YOU are a serial charity hugger
Being asked face to face is like emotional blackmail
The charity is absolutely guranteed to racist/sexist/homophobic etc

I work in the charity sector. I volunteer at a foodbank; I monitor funding streams, look at funding applications; I sit on the cooperative board of a group of local community charities (from foodbank to DV services; cooking clubs to dbt management, that kind of thing).

And I too get all of the above just because I breath, apparently! I get it. Really I do. Everyone is sick and tired of hearing about charity walks, donkeys, cats, dogs etc etc etc

But it really wouldn't hurt people to take a breath and bloody listen (or in this case read) before they saunter in and plop down their biases, prejudices and assumptions.

I said that chuggers basically emotionally blackmail people.

I know people who have worked as chuggers, I know how much they get paid, plus the additional bonus they get if the people they con into signing up pay their dd for over 3 months.

Their tactics are all emotional blackmail, that's literally part of the training.

They don't support the charities, they know bugger all about them bar the little information they have handed to them that day, and they are touting for a different charity every week.

I point blank refuse to listen to these people.

Other charities I know are problematic and refuse to support them so why should I listen?

I've worked in charities all my life and it's well known that nearly everyone who works for one could make more money doing the same thing somewhere else. Charities pay a relative market-rate pittance to most of their staff, including those directors making six figures.

I'm a 'woke' sort of person and while I definitely think many are waking up (ha) to the harm done by charities eg for gap year students to go and badly build a toilet in Africa so they can boost their CV, the sort of charity you're describing is exactly what most people think charity in the region should be like, so I don't understand the attitudes you're receiving and it's certainly not a widespread opinion.

A year or two ago a representative of a developing nation said charity to his country was equivalent to colonialism. I think that put many people off charities that operate overseas. Then employees of several development charities had inappropriate relationships with the people they were supposed to be helping. Ridiculously high salaries for almost all chief executives didn't help (the Salvation Army being an honourable exception), along with the proliferation of well-paid jobs that were not essential to the core aims of the charity. I worked exclusively in this sector and saw a lot of this happening. It made me want to weep.

@Pedalpushers

I've worked in charities all my life and it's well known that nearly everyone who works for one could make more money doing the same thing somewhere else. Charities pay a relative market-rate pittance to most of their staff, including those directors making six figures.

I'm a 'woke' sort of person and while I definitely think many are waking up (ha) to the harm done by charities eg for gap year students to go and badly build a toilet in Africa so they can boost their CV, the sort of charity you're describing is exactly what most people think charity in the region should be like, so I don't understand the attitudes you're receiving and it's certainly not a widespread opinion.

I temped at a very large charity in the UK. I can tell you for certain, because I asked. The Chairman (no idea who he was as forgot the name) - was a very wealthy man with an estate in the country, but got paid a good salary (six figures if I recall) and had shoots with pheasants etc.

As far as I recall most of the staff were paid a market rate salary too, maybe slightly under the average but certainly London rates.

No idea about other charities but I see adverts for jobs in charities and yes, they can pay under the going rate but they do realise that in order to attract and keep good staff they need to pay a decent wage.

I think it is because in the past we were being asked for one-off donations, which meant we expected to be asked repeatedly.

These days almost every charity aims to sign you up for a standing order, hopefully lifelong. Then the next charity wants the same thing, but you are already committed to the first one. As time goes on, the proportion of requests we can agree to gets lower and lower.

In terms of your particular charity, I'm sure it is a worthy cause - it's just that people have negative associations with past missionary charities and their damaging impact in Africa.

I point blank refuse to listen to these people.
Other charities I know are problematic and refuse to support them so why should I listen?

That! If I came to you and said I was looking for support for a charitable cause would you listen or would you put up those same barriers?

It's the intransigence of the barrier raised that is so fucking sad. As I aid, I know why, I had Live Aid fatigue very early on. But the absolute, hard no?

It's complicated. I think people are less used to being confronted by anyone and asked for anything as we just have fewer in-person interactions these days so we've forgotten how to be polite about it.

We also live in a more connected world where people are more likely to have travelled or been in touch with people in developing countries so it's not 'over there' any more.

Plus on the woke point, I don't like use of the word 'woke' as I think it's a derogatory way to refer to someone who wants to see justice in the world. But a woke view of charity might see it as a sticking plaster over the huge injustices faced by people who are often exploited by supply chains ending with rich people in the west. We're happy to buy £3 t-shirts then donate 50p every now and again to feel good about ourselves. The wrong kind of charity does lead to dependency culture in some places, people do need to take action for themselves as well.

Having said that, I used to work for a development charity and they did a huge amount of good. People buy into a myth sold by tabloids that charities are wasteful etc when really they're mostly run by a shoestring and staffed by dedicated people who could make much, much more money in another sector. Some of the higher salaries are for people who are running multi-national, multi-facted operations, they'd be making much more as a CEO in the private sector.

Why does it matter how much people are paid? If you pay a CEO £70k and they're great at fundraising and raise £2m for the charity, is that worse than paying a CEO £20k who raises £200k for the charity?

Personally I am a charity trustee and also do a lot of volunteering for a micro charity (writing funding bids and working on service delivery). I would not donate cash on top of this, though.

@ThroughTheTunnel

Have a look at their balance sheet before you give - it's an eye opener.

This is so true! I work for a small charity that has a small amount of reserves but some other charities in the same sector are sat on £1.5-2 million and still asking for more! The whole charity needs a complete overhaul imo.

Charity sector I meant.

@ABCeasyasdohrayme

Agree with you re chuggers. They targeted my DB when he inherited money and signed up for direct debits with them. I used to see them in a fairly large affluent town where I worked for a few years and you could tell the exact demographic they were after. They still bother you even if you say no or if they recognise you.

I work for a large charitable organisation and avoid telling people I don't know, as often I get chapter and verse about how charities shouldn't have any reserves, should only rely on volunteers and not have any paid staff, shouldn't spend money on offices / advertising etc. I also get this from people who have phoned up for help and see it in comments sections online.

I hate being forced to help at large events as I'm uncomfortable with the premise that everyone should have to donate money out of a feeling of duty. Charities are often providing a service that we should not need in a civilised society, so may that's what gets people upset? I'm thinking of Shelter, Citizens Advice, food banks.

@Puffinhead - a friend works running a shop for a big charity and she's paid fairly well for doing this - not the volunteers obviously. Profit margin is high with a lot of charities.

@BringPizza

I actively support a few charities and I think how the vulnerable are treated is a very clear measure of how decent a society really is. However, don’t grab me in the street or bang on my door.

Same here.

are sat on £1.5-2 million and still asking for more! I work alongside one of those.

They have financial obligations and underwrite a lot of stuff. One in particular must have 2 ringfenced amounts of money, both well in excess of 1 million pounds. One pot underwrites a small legal department and the other is the equivalent of one year's working capital - buildings, people, etc.

Dig a little deeper and sometimes you find good reasons for such amounts.

Your options are ridiculous.

I actively support charities close to my heart with a monthly donation.

But I do no more. I’ve picked what I give to and I won’t be persuaded.

I particularly abhor any church based charities. And if someone asked me to put up a sign for one of those I’d stifle to bite my tongue.

And what would happen if your charity ran into some trouble and ate through those reserves in one or two months? Surely that would negatively impact on the very people you’re set up to help and your employees as you’d be forced to shut down. Every charity should have enough reserves to keep running for some time should there be any financial issues. Some charities might have £1.5-£2m in reserve but that might because it’s 3-6 months of running costs should all money stop coming in. That reserves balance sheet is relevant to the amount of money it costs to keep the charity running and how much money it raises, so a charity with that much in reserves is likely raising tens of millions of pounds a year.

@Sauerkrauted

And what would happen if your charity ran into some trouble and ate through those reserves in one or two months? Surely that would negatively impact on the very people you’re set up to help and your employees as you’d be forced to shut down. Every charity should have enough reserves to keep running for some time should there be any financial issues. Some charities might have £1.5-£2m in reserve but that might because it’s 3-6 months of running costs should all money stop coming in. That reserves balance sheet is relevant to the amount of money it costs to keep the charity running and how much money it raises, so a charity with that much in reserves is likely raising tens of millions of pounds a year.

That was for @Puffinhead

I think that people get bored information (true and false!) now than ever before - through social media. A lot of it sound bites rather than well thought out debate.

As a result, I think we’ve moved away from “charity = good” to “charity might be bad”. Either because of what it does, or unintended consequences.

Here were my first two thoughts about “Malawi educational charity”:

1. Is it one of these things where wealthy white kid gets to go and build a school, amazing experience for them, gap year jinks and UCAS bragging rights? Because no, I don’t want to support Tarquin’s holiday thanks - even less so when I know that community involvement is important for their long term commitment to the project.

1. Is there a religious element? (I’m sure some religion affiliated charities are amazing, but I don’t want to get involved in one that proselytises.

I’m not accusing your Malawi charity of either - but explaining that I wouldn’t just think “oh that’s nice.” What you call “woke”, others call, “questioning, informed, caring.”

@Gonnagetgoing, maybe so for some. But I’m talking about small charities in the sensory impaired sector (no shops/retail) with small staff numbers that are literally sat on millions while the national lottery hand money over to them.

*more information - not bored!

I know about having reserves to cover running costs etc… I’m talking about amounts above and beyond that.

I particularly abhor any church based charities. That's sad as almost all of the non Trussell food banks are church based.

The one I volunteer for is. I have no faith at all, am resolutely agnostic, atheist, give any idea of a higher being short shrift. Yet the church houses, supports and nurtures the food bank as a community resource with absolutely no hint, poster, leaflet, murmering of prayer. All the others I liaise with are much the same. They are church based but that doesn't mean they are a religious entity.

I volunteer one evening per week for a local charity. I think a regular, reliable commitment of your time is much more useful on a local scale.

I just beam beatifically at chuggers and say no thank you graciously, like I'm turning down the offer of a lovely cupcake.

That! If I came to you and said I was looking for support for a charitable cause would you listen or would you put up those same barriers?

It depends on the cause, there are some charities I refuse to support and I wouldn't listen at all, it would be a waste of both our time.

If it was something I wasn't aware of and may be interested in I may listen, but not if you came to my door or blocked my way in the street or other such aggressive tactics.