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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

DS school punishment

98 replies

GatsbyGG · 12/10/2021 16:50

Hi,

Just want others perspective on this. My DS (15) tripped up his friend in PE class about three weeks ago. He did it intentionally but with no malice.. Just horseplay in his own words. This same friend was at our house a few days later and nothing was said. Both boys still as friendly as ever. I get a call from the year head the following week to tell me that my DS was threatened with suspension by the vice principal for his behaviour but the year head convinced him to reduce it to after school detention. So he did his detention and we thought that was it. I received another call today from the year head again who seemed really tense telling me that he was not allowed go on a field trip tomorrow as a consequence of his behaviour from a few weeks ago. I feel the year head definitely thinks it's overkill but he cannot overrule the vp. My DH wants to talk to the vp as he feels our DS now will be on his radar and any slight misdemeanour from him will be compounded. We had advised our DS that his behaviour from now on will be under extra scrutiny so he needs to have exemplary behaviour especially around the vp. In the past his teachers have told us he is a lovely boy and well mannered always. We want to protect him but at the same time make him responsible for his behaviour.The year head has known him for three years and knows that he is kind and good in general (his words). I really don't want to punish him as he is not a bad kid. Should we talk to the vp or principal about this now or just leave it and just do ongoing monitoring.

Yes - talk to vp/principal
No - leave and monitor

OP posts:
Original poster
GatsbyGG · 12/10/2021 18:46

@ChloeCrocodile

OP, if the PE teacher who is normally pretty reasonable said it was in temper I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss that tbh. It is entirely possible that DS' head of year minimises poor behaviour and the school VP looks constantly angry because some staff aren't prepared to enforce rules and/or some staff have a "boys will be boys" attitude. I've known a couple of HoY like that and while many parents/kids love them they make everyone else's life far harder (especially quiet kids who want to do well in school).

As the trip isn't an academic one it is really quite ordinary for students with behaviour points to be excluded. Staff are often unwilling to take disruptive students on school trips - my own school has had to cancel a couple because staff refused to go and take the risk of a serious incident happening in a far less controlled environment.

The vp only started in September so wouldn't really know the students yet.
OP posts:
Original poster
GatsbyGG · 12/10/2021 18:50

This is a new thing for me. We haven't been called about any past bad behaviour before. At pt meetings we've had positive feedback. The only negatives were that he is distracted by his laptop and will be watching that instead of his teacher and does get over exuberant to talk to the teacher when it is a subject he is passionate about like science.

OP posts:
Daphnise · 12/10/2021 18:53

I'd leave the school to sort it out and not get so involved.

They actually know what happened- you have only an account from a biased party: your child- and children do lie, often, to get out of trouble.

Frlrlrubert · 12/10/2021 18:53

Ours can't go on the trip at Xmas if they have more than 20 behaviour points (this incident would probably be 4 points), so possibly a similar thing but stricter?

Original poster
GatsbyGG · 12/10/2021 18:55

@Daphnise

I'd leave the school to sort it out and not get so involved.

They actually know what happened- you have only an account from a biased party: your child- and children do lie, often, to get out of trouble.

Yes, thanks for reinforcing it for me. I will leave it with them.
OP posts:
Goldenbear · 12/10/2021 19:00

What's a Vice Principal?

Original poster
GatsbyGG · 12/10/2021 19:03

@Goldenbear

What's a Vice Principal?
A deputy principal.
OP posts:
ElvisPresleyHadABaby · 12/10/2021 19:11

@Orangejuicemarathoner

I think he was lucky not to be excluded
What?! Excluded for tripping up his mate? I understand consequences for bad behaviour, but excluding a teenager from school because he was messing about with his friend is way too far. Take it you don't work in education?
RealBecca · 12/10/2021 19:25

I thought it was OTT until the PE teacher said it was done in malice. Friend or not, thats aggressive and not horseplay. That should come under bullying rather than horseplay. Horseplay is mucking around and an accident.

Skysblue · 12/10/2021 19:26

I’m confised by which voting option means which but you should talk to the school, their punishment is disproportionate and wrong.

I used to trip up my friends all of the time ag secondary school, it was just a laugh, and they’d say agh got me again and try to do it to me!

Your DS is now being bullied by a vindictive teacher with weird ideas imo and it’s up to you to stand up for him.

Halo1234 · 12/10/2021 19:43

I think the school is being a bit harsh tbh. Noone was hurt. There was no bad intension. It's a first time offence. He has had a detention. I doubt they will back down because his mammy tells them too though. I would want my opinion known of it was my son though. He should be on the trip.

On another note. Half my kids school would be excluded half their school life going by this criteria. Kids can throw chairs. And have the class evacuated and be back the same afternoon. I wish they were stricter for deliberate violence and repeated bad behaviour.

Maryjane3227 · 12/10/2021 19:44

I get what you mean.
But if lots of kids did this because "horseplay" was permitted, there would be a risk of injury that many parents wouldn't be happy about.
I think just live and learn, it's not a battle worth fighting. At the end of the day, your son, without malice, didnt follow instructions and there could have been an accident. Things that are fine at home or in a garden don't translate to big groups of teenagers.
I imagine no one will want to waste their time on this. You do realise senior leaders work 70 hours plus a week?

ChloeCrocodile · 12/10/2021 19:55

The vp only started in September so wouldn't really know the students yet.

But they'll know which staff members support the behaviour management policy and which don't. And the fact that your DS is usually a good kid and generally well mannered shouldn't change the sanction one iota. It is important that teens see that there is no favourites, so if detention is the right sanction for tripping when a "naughty" kid does it then it is the right thing when a "good" kid does it. And if the policy is "no students with behaviour points are allowed on trips that term" then it has to apply to everyone, regardless of the history.

I used to trip up my friends all of the time ag secondary school, it was just a laugh, and they’d say agh got me again and try to do it to me!

There's loads of stuff that was deemed okay when I was at school in the 90s and is no longer tolerated. Times change - thank goodness. Tripping up other students could easily cause serious harm (like a PPs DS) and cannot be allowed because all students should be safe in school.

Reallyimeanreally2022 · 12/10/2021 19:58

The school think it was done maliciously
that is why they are punishing in this manner

Valeriekat · 12/10/2021 20:10

I am sorry but I would bet that he has also been disruptive in other ways and they don't trust him to behave safely.

girlmom21 · 13/10/2021 06:41

@RealBecca

I thought it was OTT until the PE teacher said it was done in malice. Friend or not, thats aggressive and not horseplay. That should come under bullying rather than horseplay. Horseplay is mucking around and an accident.
A one off incident isn't bullying ffs
Reallyimeanreally2022 · 13/10/2021 06:52

@girlmom21

A one off isn’t bullying?
Don’t be so black and white
A well respected and liked teacher thought it was done maliciously
By a 15 year old

Those two facts would concern me to how this boy is behaving when not in front of a teacher to this boy.

Simonjt · 13/10/2021 06:59

Even when I was at school a certain amount of negative behaviour points excluded you from trips for the rest of the term. Any physical assault led to a fixed term exclusion, very few people ‘fooled’ around harming people as it just wasn’t worth the punishment.

Missing a trip is crap, but it means he is less likely to intentionally hurt someone again, where as detentions are just a bit boring and generally aren’t that bad.

girlmom21 · 13/10/2021 07:01

@Reallyimeanreally2022 reacting negatively towards someone on one occasion doesn't make you a bully.

Tailendofsummer · 13/10/2021 07:04

You have to be able to rely on everyone behaving sensibly and safely on a school trip. They have concerns your ds won't.

Quartz2208 · 13/10/2021 07:10

@Frlrlrubert

Ours can't go on the trip at Xmas if they have more than 20 behaviour points (this incident would probably be 4 points), so possibly a similar thing but stricter?
I think this as well. Its not so much a double punishment but that because he had the detention he isnt allowed to go on the trip (you said quite a few others who had detentions were the same).

The new VP is clearly coming in and setting out his stall with punishments and saying if do something and get a detention that might not be the end of it

Autumnleaves4 · 13/10/2021 07:39

Yes it’s a disgrace to retrospectively ban him from a trip, he has done the detention. I would ask for a school meeting and repeat what you have in your post.

Reallyimeanreally2022 · 13/10/2021 08:17

[quote girlmom21]@Reallyimeanreally2022 reacting negatively towards someone on one occasion doesn't make you a bully. [/quote]
But a teacher will know that what they see
Is often only tip of ice burg to what’s happening when they’re not around
Fact a well respected and liked teacher thought that it was malicious is concerning

amillionmenonmars · 13/10/2021 08:18

If it is a non academic trip then the staff leading the trip have the right to say they will not be taking anyone with a poor behaviour record. That is probably school policy and will be in the behaviour rules that all students will have been given.

It is a matter of health and safety. If a student has shown they are not capable of following the rules in the structure of school time then there is a risk they will not behave themselves on a trip outside of school.

Reallyimeanreally2022 · 13/10/2021 08:18

And this boy didn’t “react” to anything.

He tripped up a boy who wasn’t doing anything to him