Page 3 | To think we should be protesting

Original poster

Jessieabs · 10/10/2021 20:32

UNICEF rank the U.K.s childcare policies as one of the worst in the world...FYI.

At the top of the list are countries that aren’t hugely affluent.

OP posts:

Delatron · 10/10/2021 20:33

I’m shocked too @forinborin Mumsnet is so strange at the moment.

I can understand childless people not wanting to subside other people’s children. But other mothers (?) saying it’s completely fine that this countries childcare costs are so much more than other countries, to the tune of about £1k a month. So that women (unfortunately it is the women) are priced out of the workplace. How is that ok?

Wish I lived in Scandinavia!

MrsSkylerWhite · 10/10/2021 20:33

Jessieabs

Sorry, hang on a minute to everyone who is saying ‘why should I pay for your choices’. You don’t, I pay for my choices by paying 40% income tax“”

Your contributions won’t cover the costs of all of the public services you use during your lifetime or that of your children until they are 18, though.
People without children pay taxes too.

Peoniesandpeaches · 10/10/2021 20:33

@Hopeisnotastrategy

Previous generation did not get any assistance with child care at all. You are bloody lucky with all the breaks you get in that regard,

Previous generations had the idea of the family wage, they had more informal support and lower expectations placed on them for their parenting so it’s a horrible and false comparison

Kljnmw3459 · 10/10/2021 20:33

It's a shame that so many don't see the value of providing affordable childcare and how beneficial it can be to society as a whole.

Original poster

Jessieabs · 10/10/2021 20:34

@OnlyFoolsnMothers couldn’t agree more.

OP posts:

lovecamealong · 10/10/2021 20:34

Wow. How out of touch with reality some of you are.

Until recently I worked full time in a minimum wage job. I'm a single parent through no fault of my own. That's £1220 a month wages by the way. To pay for everything for me and 2 DC - rent, council tax, gas, elec, travel, food, clothes, internet etc etc. How the fuck could I have afforded childcare without the childcare help from the government??

All this "don't have children if you can't afford them" - to those saying this, who the fuck is going to care for your elderly parents, clean your homes and businesses, deliver your food etc?? Should low paid workers not be allowed to have children now??

Dismayed by the attitude of some people in this country.

Cocomarine · 10/10/2021 20:34

@Jessieabs

For affordable childcare.

Why are we letting the government get away with the absolute joke that is childcare in the U.K.

Over 2k per month to send 2 kids to nursery seems like madness! There should absolutely be reform to this crazy state that we’re in. Surely a huge majority of the voting population have children/have grandchildren or plan to have children, but this issue is rarely talked about at election time!

I am in favour of government assistance for childcare when that is:

for the overall economic good of the country
for the welfare of the child
for the welfare and economic chances of those who can’t afford it

On an individual basis though - no, I’m not going to protest for more support for double income couples who could easily have planned their family (a) after saving up and (b) with spacing to avoid two in childcare at the same time.

Especially not when those parents already get some tax relief AND lots of free hours from age 3.

Are you using yourself as an example OP? Why did you have 2 so close together if you couldn’t afford the childcare?

Pythonista · 10/10/2021 20:34

@forinborin

After all, if you receive childcare then what do I who has no children receive instead? You get your pension and care costs paid under the unfunded state system from the taxes of those children when you're old?

Just as we have had to pay for pensions and care for the generation before us, and for the education of the generations below us.

Muttly · 10/10/2021 20:36

I’m quite surprised by the answers you are getting OP. Personally I would be more of a fan of paid paternity leave matching maternity leave to be taken immediately after maternity leave to create a more equal society and to support fathers being more involved in children’s early years.

Barbie222 · 10/10/2021 20:36

This is the least affordable time. It is better to hang on in there for the sake of your career. There are posts every day about how hard it is to return to your previous earning potential after years out /PT. I worked at a loss for years and made use of every credit facility I could. It was worth it.

Pythonista · 10/10/2021 20:36

This argument of 'who is going to look after you when you are old' is facile.

StrawberrySquirrelThief · 10/10/2021 20:37

Crikey - you’re getting some harsh responses OP. I agree childcare should be more heavily subsidised. We have one of the highest childcare costs in the world. I also happen to think we should pay more tax in general.

Delatron · 10/10/2021 20:37

Rubbish about previous generations. My mum had an ON-SITE nursery. Where she could actually see me from her desk. And it cost hardly anything.

Brefugee · 10/10/2021 20:37

Meh. Did you care about this before it affected you?

Pythonista · 10/10/2021 20:38

@StrawberrySquirrelThief

Crikey - you’re getting some harsh responses OP. I agree childcare should be more heavily subsidised. We have one of the highest childcare costs in the world. I also happen to think we should pay more tax in general.

Good for you. Most of us think bollocks to that. I pay my share yet still you want more

forinborin · 10/10/2021 20:38

Just as we have had to pay for pensions and care for the generation before us, and for the education of the generations below us.
OK, and. Are you suggesting we should stop this quite normal cross-generational subsidy, existing - in various forms - probably from the very dawn of the civilisation, at this generation?

fishonabicycle · 10/10/2021 20:39

I think you are forgetting that countries that have heavily subsidised childcare tend to pay higher taxes. There is a fair proportion of the population in the UK that can't seem to understand that you cat have great free healthcare, schools and other state funded entities without paying higher taxes. It's not really that hard to understand.

Delatron · 10/10/2021 20:39

Why wouldn’t you want shared parental leave? Why wouldn’t you support men being able to have as much time off as women? Why should women be priced out if the workforce.

You’ve had some really strange responses on here. I’m thinking childless or never had to pay £2k per month on nursery. (Probably had family nearby to help).

flippertyop · 10/10/2021 20:40

Why should the government subsidise childcare? If you can't afford it why did you have children. It's your responsibility to pay for them not the states

Pythonista · 10/10/2021 20:40

@forinborin

Just as we have had to pay for pensions and care for the generation before us, and for the education of the generations below us. OK, and. Are you suggesting we should stop this quite normal cross-generational subsidy, existing - in various forms - probably from the very dawn of the civilisation, at this generation?

Of course not. But pointing out that we will have our pensions and care paid by today's children is irrelevant. It's not done as a favour - as you say it is normal.

Pythonista · 10/10/2021 20:41

@Delatron

Why wouldn’t you want shared parental leave? Why wouldn’t you support men being able to have as much time off as women? Why should women be priced out if the workforce.

You’ve had some really strange responses on here. I’m thinking childless or never had to pay £2k per month on nursery. (Probably had family nearby to help).

No because some people's family planning bears in mind the cost of childcare

RoseRedRoseBlue · 10/10/2021 20:42

@Shoxfordian

Can there also be a Chanel handbag subsidy? I would like one but can’t afford it so I don’t have one

100% agree.

Original poster

Jessieabs · 10/10/2021 20:43

On tax rate, UNICEF rate Estonia and Iceland as ‘best for childcare policies’.

Estonia pay 20% income tax and Iceland is on a sliding scale, very similar to the U.K.

But let’s not hold our government accountable

OP posts:

forinborin · 10/10/2021 20:43

Of course not. But pointing out that we will have our pensions and care paid by today's children is irrelevant. It's not done as a favour - as you say it is normal.
I was answering a question of "what we are getting back". It is a social contract that is quite ancient, and I'd say quite well balanced too, with very tangible benefits to both sides.