To think we should be protesting

[Jessieabs]

For affordable childcare.

Why are we letting the government get away with the absolute joke that is childcare in the U.K.

Over 2k per month to send 2 kids to nursery seems like madness! There should absolutely be reform to this crazy state that we’re in. Surely a huge majority of the voting population have children/have grandchildren or plan to have children, but this issue is rarely talked about at election time!

Wow. I cannot believe the majority of these opinions. Really? Especially on this forum!

It is a fundamental part of equality and feminism to have affordable childcare. Not only that, it benefits the economy for families to be able to make actual choices rather than have their hands forced.
Some of you need to get educated about this.

[quote Trisolaris]@AlfonsoTheDinosaur mixed up quoting there? Your comment and bolded statement was nothing to do with me?[/quote]
My apologies! You are correct and I shall ask to have that post withdrawn.

@gardeninggirl68 it was a joke..

God forbid anyone should be expected to crunch the numbers on whether they can afford a child before choosing to have one.

@Dreamstate

Yes please take all my money to subsidise your lifestyle choi e of having children, as though the government doesn't absolutely nothing for you...oh wait they do help you out.

Here I am a single children's person ...I get fuck all help from the government no tax breaks for us but by all means tske all my.money to pay for you!

Quite frankly I'm so sick of it! I'm not willing to support paying more for other peoples choices!

So dfod, you coukd of had one child, isn't that enough but no you decided to have another knowing how much it would cost and now your crying cos its too expensive. Noone forced you!

@Dreamstate The only help my husband and I get is the tax free childcare and child benefit for our one child. We both work full time, 5 days a week. Yet a friend of ours doesn't work, has her rent paid for and her child gets funded hours at nursery. She can work but she has openly admitted that she doesn't as she would be worse off.

And no one ever seems to discuss childcare arrangements with their partner, either.

I am really surprised by the responses in these threads.

I’m in France where the government provides childcare in various forms pretty much from 3 months. Crèches are available 0730 to 19h30, and nounous (nannies) are heavily subsidised (so that they are affordable yet make a decent living too). Here it’s seen as a foundation of égalité between men and women, and also a positive good for society. Parents are able to work, and everyone - whatever their income - is supported to do so. At 2/3 yrs children start “school” and from then on children are in school 0830 to 1630 4/5 days a week, plus before and after school care added on.

Yes, we do pay more taxes here: it’s worth it.

Having children is a normal thing to do. It’s not some indulgent, luxury lifestyle choice! I can’t believe some of the responses on here.

I wish they would sort out the system they have

Universal credit pays up to 85% of your childcare costs keywords many miss UP TO so that is hurdle number one finding out how much if anything you will get dictates if you can eat or not

Universal credit only accept ofstead registered childcare except they actually don't put your child in before school care and if they call it breakfast club they won't pay or they will then randomly they won't because its not childcare its a club and they don't pay for clubs

Then there is paying for your childcare you need a paid invoice with the ofsted number the name of the provider detailed breakdown and show how you paid this cannot be a receipt it now has to be a bank payment you need to prove this by showing your bank statement which should have the provider details on and proof of payment NOT a screenshot you need to upload your statement

These rules can and will change regularly for no reason and they will contradict themselves at will

But parents get that too. It's the way society works. Please don't expect the childfree to be grateful that the next generation is going to do the same as they have had to do.
From a purely economic perspective, parents are also investing a lot of their own unpaid labour in bringing up this new generation of taxpayers. Childcare subsidies don't even touch the sides.

It is a fundamental part of equality and feminism to have affordable childcare.

So to facilitate women's choices, other women have to pay more? Cool.

@Perfect28

Wow. I cannot believe the majority of these opinions. Really? Especially on this forum!

It is a fundamental part of equality and feminism to have affordable childcare. Not only that, it benefits the economy for families to be able to make actual choices rather than have their hands forced.
Some of you need to get educated about this.

Er, no. It's a fundamental part of equality and feminism to view childcare arrangements - whatever they may be - as an inherently equal responsibility of both parents. They can do it themselves, they can pay someone else to do it, or they can make whatever other arrangement works for them, but it's inherently no more the woman's responsibility than it is the man's. Thinking it's "part of feminism" relies on the supposition that it's the woman's responsibility to begin with, which is exactly the sort of sexist nonsense that anyone interested in either equality or feminism would be strongly against.

Having children is a normal thing to do. It’s not some indulgent, luxury lifestyle choice! I can’t believe some of the responses on here.

The discussion is not about having children as an indulgent, luxury lifestyle choice. It is about expecting the government to subsidise childcare even more.

@Jessieabs

I mean the government should further subsidise childcare.

Also when people say ‘one parent should stay at home’ we all know that most of the time that’ll be the woman sacrificing their career.

Genuinely surprised in some people’s opinions on this.

Yes and this is where it’s a huge problem! Inevitably it is women that become the stay at home parent, which places them at a huge disadvantage financially, not paying NI and no pension.

I completely agree the government should further subsidise nursery for working parents (working being the operative word). I earn 33k a year and every months I lose 1/3 of my wage due to tax, which considering I’m hardly rolling in it is obscene amount, especially when you consider the state of public services. I’d gladly live in a country such as the Scandinavian countries where tax IS higher but the quality of life is too!

I’m with you OP.

The Women’s Equality Party have been a massive disappointment overall, to put it mildly (and they have really shit the bed when it comes to the sex/gender debate), but one of their decent policies is a fully costed plan for universal heavily subsidised childcare (I believe £1/hr to the parents). And as someone who isn’t a parent and looks like probably won’t have children at all, I think this is a fabulous idea. We need to reframe costs of childcare, and social care more widely, as investments in our society, not burdens upon it.

@Jessieabs

I mean the government should further subsidise childcare.

Also when people say ‘one parent should stay at home’ we all know that most of the time that’ll be the woman sacrificing their career.

Genuinely surprised in some people’s opinions on this.

Or just don't have children you can't afford? It enrages me that people in this country as so entitled that they think the government (taxpayer) should pay for their lifestyle choices.

@forinborin

But parents get that too. It's the way society works. Please don't expect the childfree to be grateful that the next generation is going to do the same as they have had to do. From a purely economic perspective, parents are also investing a lot of their own unpaid labour in bringing up this new generation of taxpayers. Childcare subsidies don't even touch the sides.

Unpaid labour ? That is their choice. They aren't having children so that the children can grow up and pay tax! They are having kids because they want to do so. And it's their right to do so. Just not to ask for more subsidy

@gardeninggirl68 Those are your words, not mine.

I agree with OP that subsidised and affordable childcare would be of great benefit to the country and to many working families. I wouldn't have had to leave my career if it had been available, and would therefore have paid much more tax over the years when I was forced to be a SAHM for financial reasons.

"Don't have children if you can't afford them" is sanctimonious virtue signalling, usually by those from fairly comfortable and well off backgrounds.

And they also have the benefit of state subsidised childcare and state funded education.

the country is on its knees financially

Why is the country on its knees?
Could it be due to political choices we have made?
And don't try to blame covid, this situation long predates covid.

@PurpleOkapi

God forbid anyone should be expected to crunch the numbers on whether they can afford a child before choosing to have one.

OK, let's hypothesise that from tomorrow only women on salaries of say above £50K will have children - to be able to meet all their childcare and other costs themselves, you know, also in the case if the other parents runs away and pays CMS rate only. I don't know what % that would be, but let's say - 1 in 10 women. Do you think that would change the society for better?

@Jessieabs

I mean the government should further subsidise childcare.

Also when people say ‘one parent should stay at home’ we all know that most of the time that’ll be the woman sacrificing their career.

Genuinely surprised in some people’s opinions on this.

No no no.

The government already susidise childcare plenty. There is the fee top up and the free hours when they get a bit older. Ultimately kids are a lifestyle choice and an expensive one at that. Should they also susidise everybody who wants to own a Porsche?

And this from a parent.

@Kendodd

the country is on its knees financially

Why is the country on its knees?
Could it be due to political choices we have made?
And don't try to blame covid, this situation long predates covid.

Of course it is due to political choices. Regardless of the reason, there isn't exactly millions to throw at this

[quote Topseyt]@gardeninggirl68 Those are your words, not mine.

I agree with OP that subsidised and affordable childcare would be of great benefit to the country and to many working families. I wouldn't have had to leave my career if it had been available, and would therefore have paid much more tax over the years when I was forced to be a SAHM for financial reasons.

"Don't have children if you can't afford them" is sanctimonious virtue signalling, usually by those from fairly comfortable and well off backgrounds.[/quote]
Exactly and other countries do it. It's not that complicated
Or they can mandate equal paternity leave and let the men step up

@Autumndays123 isn’t that quite a circular argument, where do you draw the line?

Every choice you make that could remotely affect your health is a lifestyle choice, yet the nhs is a tax funded service. Should smokers not receive healthcare? The overweight? After all aren’t these ‘lifestyle choices too’
Would you say the same for primary schools? (It’s an extension of the same argument as for nurseries).
Should mothers get no maternity pay as that too surely is a lifestyle choice?

@workwoes123

I am really surprised by the responses in these threads.

I’m in France where the government provides childcare in various forms pretty much from 3 months. Crèches are available 0730 to 19h30, and nounous (nannies) are heavily subsidised (so that they are affordable yet make a decent living too). Here it’s seen as a foundation of égalité between men and women, and also a positive good for society. Parents are able to work, and everyone - whatever their income - is supported to do so. At 2/3 yrs children start “school” and from then on children are in school 0830 to 1630 4/5 days a week, plus before and after school care added on.

Yes, we do pay more taxes here: it’s worth it.

Having children is a normal thing to do. It’s not some indulgent, luxury lifestyle choice! I can’t believe some of the responses on here.

Totally agree with this too.