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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think we should be protesting

747 replies

Jessieabs · 10/10/2021 20:08

For affordable childcare.

Why are we letting the government get away with the absolute joke that is childcare in the U.K.

Over 2k per month to send 2 kids to nursery seems like madness! There should absolutely be reform to this crazy state that we’re in. Surely a huge majority of the voting population have children/have grandchildren or plan to have children, but this issue is rarely talked about at election time!

OP posts:
OnlyFoolsnMothers · 11/10/2021 15:28

@Viviennemary

Somebody is going to have to pay for it in the end. And no I don't think childless people or folk with grown up children should pay extra taxes to subsidise childcare. Its already more generous these days with the 30 hours scheme for 3 year olds and UC childcare element.
Why should I pay for social care when my parents are already dead- both died before retirement ?!
OnlyFoolsnMothers · 11/10/2021 15:30

@crossstitchingnana

Why should my taxes be increased to pay for your childcare? This obsession with working, why have kids and then put them in nursery?
I don’t have an obsession with working I have an obsession with living: paying my mortgage and bills
EasterIssland · 11/10/2021 15:33

@crossstitchingnana

Why should my taxes be increased to pay for your childcare? This obsession with working, why have kids and then put them in nursery?
So should then one of the parents give up their career so that the child doesn’t go to nursery ? Or should only the rich have children as they can afford nursery ?
Ylvamoon · 11/10/2021 15:36

What a depressing thread. This is clearly a race to the beyond bottom.

Delatron · 11/10/2021 15:38

Some childless women on here (why would you visit a parenting site when you have such distain for mothers?) probably don’t realise how they are facing discrimination without even having children.

Potential employees weighing up whether you’ll disappear off and have children soon so should they give the job to the male candidate... should they promote you and risk you leaving to have children etc.

And yes society absolutely loses out as does the economy when thousands of women are priced out of the workforce due to childcare costs.

Very narrow minded views on here.

It’s perfectly possible to help women have successful careers with children. By subsiding childcare and providing shared parental leave. Other countries manage it perfectly well.

EasterIssland · 11/10/2021 15:40

@crossstitchingnana

Why should my taxes be increased to pay for your childcare? This obsession with working, why have kids and then put them in nursery?
Why should my taxes be increased to pay for those that have caught COVID if I’ve not caught it COVID ? Why should my taxes be spent to pay for elderlies welfare if my parents don’t live in this country.

So many whys … because we live in a society and as part of that we make sure as many people as possible have a better life.

Also , don’t think many are saying taxes should be increased. But some of the current ones be scrapped and use that money for the childcare. Would you agree with this ?

Delatron · 11/10/2021 15:40

This is one of the most depressing threads there’s been on here in a long time.

ineedbanoffee · 11/10/2021 15:41

Love the person saying ‘good for society’ arguments are not about brain and facts. The irony. Parents are supporting their children 24/7. Do you know what childcare supports? The economy and businesses, among other things. It enables a society that is better off in so many ways.

And actually, universities are in serious trouble since we stopped seeing universities as a public good and turned them into privately-run marketplaces so yes, I think the tuition fee system is also counter-productive and has so many hidden costs both economically and socially. But that’s for another day.

mokojolo · 11/10/2021 15:42

The absolute insanity of promulgating political policies telling most people not to have children. It's like they've never met a human being. It's so divorced from reality.

What do you think a society would be like, filled, literally filled, with people who want children and can't have them? Do any of you think your life would be a happy one? Do you think your comfortable, satisfied little life would be safe? It's so short sighted.

Society isn't orderly and safe by default. We make it that way with the social contract. And that means if you play by the rules, for the most part, most people can live a meaningful life. It doesn't need to be everyone (it should be! but it doesn't need to be), but it does need to be most people.

Societies where most people have no hope of a future are hell on earth.

ineedbanoffee · 11/10/2021 15:49

‘Obsession with working’ in my case is an obsession with eating and having a roof over my head. Also an obsession with not being completely financially dependent on a man and ending up screwed if he gets ill/we get divorced/life happens

ChloeCrocodile · 11/10/2021 15:50

I don't have children but still think it is better for society as a whole if some people have them and if we all share a fair chunk of the cost. That means free education and healthcare (eg prescriptions) to ensure the children grow into adults capable of contributing to society. And subsidised childcare to ensure both parents are able to continue to work if they choose - that is better for the country in the long run.

Dreamstate · 11/10/2021 15:57

Noone is here saying zero childcare help.

Most are saying no more additional taxes or additional help.

You already get help! I already pay my tax for that.

I'm not prepared to pay anymore. Sorry tough shit.

At some point us single childfree people have had ebough of subsiding everyone else's lives and getting nothing back

To my point again not one single person on this thread has been able to show how a single childfree person gets a single benefit that a parent doesn't.

We get fuck all help. And I'm fed up paying for other people.

Even my fricking council tax discount means I still pay more per person than a 2 adult household. Fml thats bad it is!

No more! Otherwise fuk it here takenmy entire salary and give me nothing cos thats how it feels

All this fucking empathy for parents and zero empathy for the people who you tske money from. Nah instead we are selfish, not supportive enough etc.

Well bugger off, I dont care. I earn my money I pay enough taxes already and I'm not going to support paying more for your lifestyle choices.

InTheNameOfAllThatIsHonest · 11/10/2021 15:59

To my point again not one single person on this thread has been able to show how a single childfree person gets a single benefit that a parent doesn't.

Yes - everyone has so far managed to answer this point. Every single person supporting increased subsidies. Funny that.

agapanthus1979 · 11/10/2021 16:13

@Jessieabs

I mean the government should further subsidise childcare.

Also when people say ‘one parent should stay at home’ we all know that most of the time that’ll be the woman sacrificing their career.

Genuinely surprised in some people’s opinions on this.

There isn't any money. I accept I have to pay high taxes for health and social care etc, but I'd feel pretty resentful if I was paying to subsidise your childcare. As others have said, if you can't afford 'em, don't have 'em. Sorry, it sounds brutal but that's how it is.
anon2334 · 11/10/2021 16:16

@Shoxfordian

Why is it the governments job to pay for your lifestyle choice?
You are right but it’s not our job to put with their corruption any longer either. One time for them scumbags and one for us. Time to stand up and not just about childcare.
anon2334 · 11/10/2021 16:17

I meant one rule for them and one for us

Dreamstate · 11/10/2021 16:29

@InTheNameOfAllThatIsHonest

To my point again not one single person on this thread has been able to show how a single childfree person gets a single benefit that a parent doesn't.

Yes - everyone has so far managed to answer this point. Every single person supporting increased subsidies. Funny that.

No they haven't, so here tell me then..from all three taxes you pay, what particular tax break or subsidy does a single childfree person get that someone with a child doesn't?

Not NHS or social care that everyone can get.

So like childcare is something only those with children get

What do single childfree people only get that no other group does?

Noone has answered that

InTheNameOfAllThatIsHonest · 11/10/2021 16:38

@Dreamstate and they won't - because they can't.

InTheNameOfAllThatIsHonest · 11/10/2021 16:39

@Dreamstate (I just re-read my post and realised it should have said that 'nobody has so far managed to answer this point')

BreadPita · 11/10/2021 16:41

What do you think a society would be like, filled, literally filled, with people who want children and can't have them?

People are arguing for taxes not being raised to subsidise childcare. There would have to be a serious reduction in living standard before most people will decide not to have children. People who are struggling already get assistance. I don't see the point of subsidising childcare further, so that people who can already afford childcare can save a bit more money at the expense of people who have chosen not to have children.
Because this is the crux of the argument. People who need childcare will either pay through taxes or pay directly (the government can't magically reduce the costs of actual provision).
This just means that people who do not have kids will be throwing more money into the pot so that people with kids can pay a little less.

HalzTangz · 11/10/2021 16:42

If you choose to have children you would brunt the cost of it. Why should the government do anything about it.

It would probably be cheaper to hire a nanny if you have 2 kids than use a nursery, so why not explore that.

I don't see why tax payers should fund childcare

HalzTangz · 11/10/2021 16:48

@Jessieabs

Sorry, hang on a minute to everyone who is saying ‘why should I pay for your choices’. You don’t, I pay for my choices by paying 40% income tax.
And I also pay 40% income tax, why should my share go towards your childcare?
ineedbanoffee · 11/10/2021 16:49

These aren’t benefits for parents. These are investments in children, and in the future. This is such a ridiculous thread full of hateful and vindictive misogyny, short-term thinking and ignorant economics .... I’m off!

HalzTangz · 11/10/2021 16:54

@cutietooties

What horrible replies your getting! I understand the government doesn't have the funds to help working parents with childcare but why help parents who don't work why do they get discounted childcare if they're at home all day? And why do they get preferential nursery schools places e.g full time, surely working parents need the help too? Either offer the same to everyone or no one.
The 85% for those on UC are people that work part time and top money up with UC. It's not for people that don't work at all
Morgan12 · 11/10/2021 16:54

So the government have ensured that most families need two wages to just survive.

They then make childcare ridiculously expensive so that one parent (the mum!) needs to forfeit a career and quit or go part time.

Damn fucking right we should be protetsing this.

The government have completely killed family life and we sit and do nothing. We say nothing.

Then we have you lot on here who think it's okay.

I can only assume you are Tory supporters. Simple as that. And you are part of the problem.