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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask how you can justify using a woodburner in a city or town

584 replies

MojoMoon · 09/10/2021 09:39

www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/oct/09/eco-wood-stoves-emit-pollution-hgv-ecodesign?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

New wood burning stoves billed as more environmentally friendly still emit 750 times more tiny particle pollution than a modern HGV truck, a report has shown.

Only stoves that meet the ecodesign standard can be legally sold from the start of 2022 in the UK and EU, but experts said the regulation was shockingly weak.

The report used data on the emissions produced by stoves in perfect laboratory conditions and the pollution could be even higher in everyday use, the researchers said, with older stoves being much worse.

Tiny particle pollution – called PM2.5 – is especially harmful to health as it can pass through the lungs into the bloodstream and then be carried around the body and lodge in organs. At least 40 ,000 early deaths a year are attributed to wood burning in Europe.

Wood burners also triple the level of harmful pollution inside homes and should be sold with a health warning, said the scientist behind a study published in December. The researchers advised that the stoves should not be used around elderly people or children.

The government may have banned the burning of wet wood but has no plans to ban the sale of woodburners, despite the fact that the 8pc of homes that use them are almost entirely in cities and can use power or gas for heating. And are almost entirely fairly wealthy households.

(Those of you who live a "very rural" location, to use a common Mumsnet phrase and are entirely off grid may justifiably need one. But the question was cities and towns).

It worries me so few people know how dangerous PM2.5 emissions are, particularly for pregnant women and children.

YANBU: correct, woodburners should be banned in homes in cities and towns asap

YABU: no, they look pretty and who cares about science and health

OP posts:
generalh · 10/10/2021 20:31

We make sure the wood is dry. Plus I live next to a steelworks so my little woodburner won't make a blind bit of difference

UsedUpUsername · 10/10/2021 20:34

The 2 aren't a million miles apart!

Actually they are. Carbon emissions can’t hurt you, but particulates can. Prematurely kills thousands of people annually but whatever

DreamTheMoors · 10/10/2021 20:35

@HeronLanyon

Yes - the loss of all flora & fauna is tragic.
Carmel and Santa Barbara are two of my very favorite places - my auntie lived in SB so I spent a great deal of time there as a child.
We are very regulated here, but it’s not like there’s the “fireplace police” running around every night during the winter handling out tickets - it’s more the honor system, but people are pretty good about it.
And now, the western US is experiencing a 1000-year drought. It’s frightening how lakes and rivers are drying up and farmers’ wells have run dry. Farmers and wine growers are having to make tough decisions about whether to plant or not plant. Rationing water is right around the corner.
You stay safe and well too.

Porridgeislife · 10/10/2021 20:45

Wood fires don’t significantly contribute to climate change. Why you should be concerned is particulates, and the health of your family. If you wouldn’t allow a diesel car to discharge its exhaust into your living room, you shouldn’t have a wood fire.

The particulates from wood burning fires contribute to significantly shortening the lives of women in sub Saharan Africa due to women cooking over open fires as they are so very bad for your health. I couldn’t, in good conscience, have one in the house with children.

MojoMoon · 10/10/2021 20:45

@Ddot

Those are all great things to do for carbon emissions and climate change.

But wood burning is about local air pollution, not climate change. It is about particulates, not carbon.

No I don't want you to freeze. But neither do I want you to be poisoning yourself, your family and your neighbours, increasing your risk and their risk of respiratory diseases, dementia, miscarriage and cancer.

I'm not Being Mean To WoodBurning Fans for fun. I'd just rather you, your family and neighbours had a lower risk of dying early, miscarrying or ending up with dementia

As I said, I think more support for low income homes to improve efficiency and insulation is vital too. There are schemes in many local areas already and although it means some disruption, I would strongly suggest taking a look

The Energy Saving Trust is a great starting point for advice.

OP posts:
TheEvilPea · 10/10/2021 20:59

This has reminded me: I need to order some logs. Thanks!

NotMeNoNo · 10/10/2021 21:04

"my little (indulgence of your choice) won't make a blind bit of difference" is what got us into this mess. Half a million people are all making the same excuse.

www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/feb/16/home-wood-burning-biggest-cause-particle-pollution-fires. All the stats linked here.

Your lovely top of the range burner burning beautiful dry wood is still polluting your neighborhood, if you live in anywhere bigger than a village you shouldn't use it.

The only reason they aren't outright banned is probably (like Aga's) they are mostly owned by posh people including a large number of MP's.

LidlMiddleLover · 10/10/2021 21:06

Get real there are a lot worse things than woodburners Being cold for example

EvilPea · 10/10/2021 21:08

@TheEvilPea

This has reminded me: I need to order some logs. Thanks!
Shock Two evil peas in a pod!!?
Ddot · 10/10/2021 21:10

Looked into help for new boiler I dont qualify can't insulate walls unless I put something on the outside and we know how that went. Can't afford to move, I wish I had a solution for you I really do but I don't. I'm as green as I can be and try each day to save our lovely planet. I use less chemicals than most even my toothpaste is chemical free.

Ddot · 10/10/2021 21:22

Its bonfire night soon, now that's unnecessary

MojoMoon · 10/10/2021 21:30

@Ddot

Please don't let the Grenfell disaster put your off all external wall insulation. There are many, many types of perfectly safe and effective external wall insulation. Energy Saving Trust can provide lots of info.

In the next few months, the government will announce its policy proposals for decarbonising heating which will include measures to support more insulation (unless the Insulate Britain protest have given it a bad name)

I really hope there is something there that will be financially accessible to you. There definitely are technological solutions to making your home warmer - it needs the government to make them viable and accessible.

And I 100pc agree bonfire night is unnecessary and all bonfires should be banned in urban areas too. Even if it is "tradition". People's health is more important than tradition.

OP posts:
OverTheRubicon · 10/10/2021 21:42

@Ddot

I only burn the correct fuel, its chemical treated wood and painted wood that stinks
Doesn't matter. Still creates particulates.
Roughasabadgersbum · 10/10/2021 21:57

I have a wood burner and I love it. We are rural and rely on it to keep the house warm, cook on, make hot drinks and dry our washing ( we have no dryer)when the electricity fails, which is quite often in winter. We do have oil heating but this is costly and can't always guarantee delivery or the boiler working!
I wouldn't be without my stove. We only burned seasoned wood, not green stuff. We've often all slept downstairs in the front room when it's been bitterly cold outside.

Roughasabadgersbum · 10/10/2021 22:00

Ps I am dedicated not posh and grew up with open fires at home, as did DH and none of our children or us have asthma or any breathing difficulty, we do have a carbon monoxide detector in the rooms as provided by the computer that installed our stove

Roughasabadgersbum · 10/10/2021 22:00

Definitely not dedicatedGrin

julieca · 10/10/2021 22:02

It isn't about asthma. It is about tiny particles getting into your organs.

CuteGirlsWatchMeEatEther · 10/10/2021 22:04

It can’t be justified. Some people are just selfish arseholes through and through.

StoneofDestiny · 10/10/2021 22:15

I'm glad I have one and when gas prices short up or power fails it will be lit. We use it rarely as our house is very rarely cold as it's insulated within an inch of its life!

Goldi321 · 10/10/2021 22:16

We live in a tiny village with no mains gas. We have bottled LPG (£250 a month to live in a cold house anyone) which we try to use sparingly. With our log burner we can heat one room, seasoned logs are a cheap way of supplementing our central heating and we had a 24 hour power cut my in the village in January last year that was miserable. So yes , sorry we will keep our only alternative form of heat.

Cakeofdoom · 10/10/2021 22:17

The cold will affect my health far more than my stove...nothing will change my mind, zero. Call me selfish but I'm going to struggle to heat my small home without it.

Ddot · 10/10/2021 22:23

What size is your car

RIPWalter · 10/10/2021 22:35

YANBU except for suggesting that it is only an urban issue.

I live "very rurally", we are not on mains gas, water or sewerage.

We got rid of our log burner after we had an air source heat pump fitted as it seemed kind of pointless and hypocritical to have a green heating system (we are on a green energy tariff) and then spew loads of particulate into the air.

When our neighbours use their logburner and we are stuck in the clouds, we live up on a mountain side so this is fairly common, it absolutely stinks. They have oil Central heating, so the log burner is a lifestyle choice.

TuftyMarmoset · 10/10/2021 22:37

We are rural and rely on it to ... dry our washing ( we have no dryer)

Ah yes, it's well known that airers don't work in rural areas like they do here in town...

Roughasabadgersbum · 10/10/2021 22:43

Thanks for your comment! I have an airer thank you .. no need to be so bloody rude