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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is the UK about to collapse?

778 replies

Penfield · 07/10/2021 14:20

Sorry - There was probably a better way to put this.

Does anyone else have a feeling that we are close to some collapse, explosion, disintegration of society ...

With gas prices, petrol shortages, inflation, Brexit fall out, Covid, gaslighting government etc

I feel like we're on the edge of something - big ...

OP posts:
peewitsandy · 07/10/2021 23:41

I think this quote sums up the Countries problems today quite well.

"Economic policy can destroy a Government, but our problems are far deep-sorted and daunting than that"

Bernard Donoughue to Jim Callaghan 15th April 1976.

History has always repeated itself.

julieca · 07/10/2021 23:42

@buttermutt full-on prepping makes no sense. Having a few things in the house does make sense.
I noticed in the first lockdown many of those criticising people buying a bit more were saying things like - well of course I keep a months worth of food in the freezer and cupboards normally. But there is no need to panic-buy more.
There seemed to be little understanding that a lot of people only keep a few days worth of food in the cupboard.

peewitsandy · 07/10/2021 23:42

"Far more deep- sorted and daunting than that"

madisonbridges · 07/10/2021 23:45

@julieca. You're talking rubbish. There not saying there are going to be blackouts. In fact they're confident there won't be. Why don't you read and absorb before writing.
I can't read the Telegraph, it's firewalled but looking at your other two sources.

The Guardian I already quoted.
"It said it believed there was enough slack in the system to avoid blackouts affecting households and factories."

Yahoo - for gas and electricity
"National Grid said Britain has enough gas supply capacity to meet demand, gas in storage and tools available to manage times of acute gas demand."

"We are confident that there will be enough capacity available to keep Britain’s lights on," Fintan Slye, executive director of ESO."

peewitsandy · 07/10/2021 23:49

"Crisis what Crisis" is (A) A term used by Jim Callaghan in the midst of the winter of discontent in 1979 or (B) An expression likely to be said by a Prime Minister who believes there are no structural or economic problems within the United kingdom. Send your answers on a postcard to 10 Downing St London SW1 2AA.

madisonbridges · 07/10/2021 23:50

@Sarahlou63
The UK is now a third world country

How do you even come up with that idea? 😂😂😂 I just wonder if you have any concept what a third world country is really like?

tootootaataa · 07/10/2021 23:54

[quote madisonbridges]@Sarahlou63
The UK is now a third world country

How do you even come up with that idea? 😂😂😂 I just wonder if you have any concept what a third world country is really like?[/quote]
She means third country status...

julieca · 07/10/2021 23:55

@madisonbridges you are selectively quoting. There are two reports. The most recent one raises concerns about the National Grid, and another one that says it will be fine.

madisonbridges · 08/10/2021 00:02

54tootootaataa

madisonbridges

@Sarahlou63
The UK is now a third world country

How do you even come up with that idea? 😂😂😂 I just wonder if you have any concept what a third world country is really like?

She means third country status...

Ohhhh.... Words matter.

peewitsandy · 08/10/2021 00:03

In many ways the upcoming winter and spring may come as close to the Economic Carnage of 1979 as we have seen in the last 42 years. There are a number of similarities occurring today 1. the "Pound in your pocket" 2. Empty food shelves in Supermarkets 3. a large number of people not prepared to work for the wages offered 4. an international slow down to the Worlds Economy caused by Covid . 5. 1979 Oil shock Crisis leading to spike in Inflation.

madisonbridges · 08/10/2021 00:09

[quote julieca]@madisonbridges you are selectively quoting. There are two reports. The most recent one raises concerns about the National Grid, and another one that says it will be fine.[/quote]
They're the reports that you've chosen to back up your argument and I'm just directly quoting from them, the Guardian and Yahoo. (Can't access the Telegraph.)

This was your post...
National Grid has just warned there will be blackouts this winter.

So if you think I'm misquoting or selectively quoting, you quote the pieces from those reports that say we will definitely be having blackouts.

peewitsandy · 08/10/2021 00:11

We are not a "Third World Country, nor will we ever be a small country". However, some of our countries infrastructure is now resembling what we might of expected to see in Eastern Europe pre -1989 !

peewitsandy · 08/10/2021 00:12

Have expected to see ...

JulesRimetStillGleaming · 08/10/2021 00:12

My point about Facebook was a serious one... without the hype and the arguments and the anger and the panic, we can come into ourselves and focus on what's really important. I know that I'm in an incredibly privileged position and am able to afford to get through difficult times.

That's why the rest of my list was about protecting the vulnerable who will be at rush of harm if things get worse. Those of us who are more privileged need to not panic buy so what is available is available for the most vulnerable.

JulesRimetStillGleaming · 08/10/2021 00:12

post and risk

Bloody fat fingers.

Nightlystroll · 08/10/2021 00:20

@peewitsandy

We are not a "Third World Country, nor will we ever be a small country". However, some of our countries infrastructure is now resembling what we might of expected to see in Eastern Europe pre -1989 !
Before the EU updated it for them?
HepzibahNutter · 08/10/2021 00:24

I reckon there will be a few riots at least. We had similar problems back in the 80s and there were riots then.

There's always riots with the Tories though. For a party of law and order they sure do bring disorder.

OddSockReunion · 08/10/2021 00:35

@HepzibahNutter

I reckon there will be a few riots at least. We had similar problems back in the 80s and there were riots then.

There's always riots with the Tories though. For a party of law and order they sure do bring disorder.

It's their claim to be the party of business and the economy that has become the most hilarious in recent times. 😆

Also not sure that they understand what the word "conserve" means.

Intellectual dwarfs led by intellectual microbes.

OddSockReunion · 08/10/2021 00:36

@peewitsandy

We are not a "Third World Country, nor will we ever be a small country". However, some of our countries infrastructure is now resembling what we might of expected to see in Eastern Europe pre -1989 !
Hahaaa ever seen a world map? Of course the UK is a small country!
HepzibahNutter · 08/10/2021 00:43

@OddSockReunion yes they're not so good at the old sums these days are they? Couldn't even Google "what do lorry drivers earn?" and they've had five years to do it lol.

OddSockReunion · 08/10/2021 00:44

@woodhill

Does feel like the energy crisis has been orchestrated.

Is it sour grapes for Brexit

Why didn't the UK store some gas earlier in the year as they knew this could happen

It has very limited storage facilities compared to most countries. Because the is no strategic planning and huge economic mismanagement, see above.
OddSockReunion · 08/10/2021 00:46

[quote HepzibahNutter]@OddSockReunion yes they're not so good at the old sums these days are they? Couldn't even Google "what do lorry drivers earn?" and they've had five years to do it lol.[/quote]
Indeed. It's utterly nuts that people like this are attempting to run a country. I suppose it must be true that populations get the Governments that they deserve. Sad

newtb · 08/10/2021 00:48

I was talking to a friend the other night. We're both 65 and when we were at university and just after we hit the 78-9 so-called winter of discontent.
A poster has, as have many, mis-quoted Maggie as saying society didn't exist. She did say 'there is no such thing as society' meaning that we are all individuals and we all have a responsibility to those around us. It was how she'd been brought up, as were we all. Church-going was very high (there wasn't much else to do on a Sunday) and people noticed when old Mrs Smith hadn't been seen doing her usual things.
I can remember thinking that the community charge was a good thing. Wat Tyler led the peasants' revolt with no taxation without representation and in the 80s it was the other way around. I can remember that Hestletine's rates on his Georgian town house were half of ours on a 30s house in Trafford. Next door to us lived an elderly widow, opposite a family with 3 grown up sons in their 20s all working. The amount they paid for local services was the same and the houses would have been worth around £40k. It was an attempt to address the problem of voting in expensive social policies in local elections and then sitting back and letting everyone else pay for them.
My ex-bil worked in the direct works dept of a city council. After 2 years, he became staff with a local govt final salary pension for 6% contribution. He walked out, the family's attitude being that they weren't going to give him a pay rise to compensate. He stayed out of work until he'd got back what he'd paid in his NI and tax or ran out of entitlement, doing foreigners with materials stolen from his former employers. The NHS was the same. Working at a biscuit factory one of the girls on the line used to take orders for her boyfriend's business. He was a hospital chef, and ran a mobile chicken in the basket service to local pubs using food from Walton and Fazakerley hospital kitchens.
Having lunch in a nurse's home as a guest on a Saturday there were only a few of us, meals being paid for by ticket. There was a dish piled high with potato croquettes, about 30 or so. I was warned to only have 3. The cook went off for the weekend after Saturday lunch, and fed her family for the weekend on the so-called left-overs.
Each and every government borrows dirty tricks from another whether another country or another party.
Frank Field was sacked for thinking the unthinkable. Enoch Powell was a classic's don talking about the Rivers of the Tiber foaming with so much blood, and vilified. He only ever took a pay rise when elected, and once elected did not take any rise until the next General election.
Britain was bankrupt in 1979. Heath, who was an idiot, called an election on Who governs the country? Me or the miners? He lost. The vast majority of his generation, all Oxbridge educated, came from modest backgrounds, but went to grammar schools and then to Oxford. Harold Wilson was a fraud with his Bradford origins. He went to Wirral Grammar school in Higher Bebington. Glenda Jackson, from 'Liverpool', grew up in Hoylake and lived 400yds away from Rt Hon Selwyn Lloyd MP.
Those on the gravy train do very nicely and make sure that if they've used a ladder to get to their lofty position, that they pull it up after them to stop others having the same benefits.
Martin Bell, elected to Tatton on an anti-corruption ticket won an absolute majority of over 50% of the electorate and only served 1 term leaving it wide open for the idiot Gideon who blew the lid off the pensions by allowing people to take all the cash out to fuel a spending boom.
The week that Hamilton won his case against Hislop and Private Eye, a paper shop in Knutsford just happened to have 1 copy of that week's 'Eye' in the window, surrounded by a circle of little brown envelopes. Nothing else.
A friend at Uni was spat at in the face in the Union Bar, the Barnes Wallis building, by 2 Irish blokes in their 20s. Why? She had a very strong Belfast accent. She went to UMIST to avoid the troubles, having lost 2 of her friends in the UVI, blown to bits by the Freedom Fighters of the IRA. Such big strong men in their 20s, spitting, literally, their venom into the face of an 18 year old girl.

There are some really good people, and there are some right shits.
In the 80s the top rate of income tax was 99%, to pay for the national debt. Maggie dropped it to 40%, and the government's tax take rocketed. It wasn't worth paying an accountant to reduce the bills any more.
However, when the gulf between the have's getting £2k a month to do nothing, and the have nots of the dinner ladies threatened with losing the 'high' pension next year because of a £5/week occupational pension, you have a recipe for enormous social unrest.
In France, you get GPs on an 80k€ pension working to earn another one asking where you choose to shop, divorced from the reality of 'normal people's lives, of where you can afford to, you have a petrol drum and a lighted match. My own GP has told me not to carry any heavy weights..... no shopping delivery, nearest shop 3 miles, nearest supermarket 4 miles, Lidl/Aldi 8-9 miles, she seems to think I must drive 20 miles a day on free diesel to do shopping for 1 or 2 days.
She's a good GP, but has made assumptions about my income that have over-estimated it by a factor of 10. Maybe in France I'd have a pension of 40k€, but I don't. It's a tenth of that having worked from the age of 20 and before transfer, except for govt schemes, was impossible and even after 4, nearly 5, years, the contributions are held to benefit current workers.
Still it's nearly the October 2 week half-term. Means we're due a channel port blockade, especially if Mme can't buy the clothes at 0%vat in Tesco for the kids during the holidays.
Even at the port, it depends on the individual police officer as at the airports. Some accept the paper version, some don't.

Think it depends on the way they were potty-trained as much as anything rational.

Rocaille · 08/10/2021 00:50

I don't think total collapse is imminent yet. We can limp on for a good deal longer. We've still got really good infrastructure and a civil society which, although much weaker now, remains a big advantage.

I think we're leaving one epoch and entering into another. We've been in terminal decline for many years but it's accelerating now and we're well on the way to becoming a third world country (I'm referring to the disfunction, disorder, corruption and retreating rule of law).

I think eventually there will be a crisis so bad that international agencies will step in to remodel the economy. Fourth industrial revolution and all that.

OddSockReunion · 08/10/2021 00:50

@MarshaBradyo

God you are rude Oddsocks

I can see why you are so angry about life.

Hahaaa ok. GrinConfused I'm not remotely angry about life. I am sad at sharing a country with many people who seem to be awful human beings, but am lucky to have filtered out only good ones to have in my own life.

Sorry if you find it rude when people disagree with you. That must make social interaction difficult if you say vacuous things as often in real life if you do in your posts.