Is the UK about to collapse?

[Penfield]

Sorry - There was probably a better way to put this.

Does anyone else have a feeling that we are close to some collapse, explosion, disintegration of society ...

With gas prices, petrol shortages, inflation, Brexit fall out, Covid, gaslighting government etc

I feel like we're on the edge of something - big ...

It just means that people are going to be too busy surviving to react

I think that rather depends on how many people survive, and how many don’t. I can see an awful lot of people not being able to keep their head above water in the coming months.

We're definitely at a point of quite dramatic change

A real tipping point 😔

The environmental crisis is here, you just can't see it yet (and when you do it will be too late)

That's not catastrophising, that's reality

The UK is definately in a far worse place than it was when the tories came into power, and whilst a lot of global issues have obviously had their impact the fact is we have had 10+ years of a bunch of self-interested cunts running the country.

The problem remains however that during that time we've had an opposition completely unable to hold that government to account.

@mustlovegin

It's a horrible time to be alive

Ultimately, people will do what they always have, to some extent.

They will do what they need to do to keep them and their families fed and housed.

And as for those saying there's no petrol crisis

Dh was out of petrol 11 days ago - we waited for the crisis to pass (he's been taking the bus)

Today I got petrol by going out in my car, going to 5 petrol stations, finding one with half the pumps open, driving home, THEN brown trousering back there in DH's car and queuing for 30 minutes with the light on red (really thought I'd run out before I got to the pump). No one needs this SHIT.

A total of 90 minutes out my life to get petrol - in London so 5 petrol stations is A LOT

@XingMing

If you have a mortgage, I'd be looking for longer term fixed rates. Interest rates are going to go up quite hard and fast when the BoE decides to act.

And that will be good news for the millions of Tory voters with savings and no mortgages. Yet more intergenerational warfare - deep joy.

I dont think its collapse but I think the UK is on the way down economically. And then there's climate change which is going to disrupt everything for everyone.

Meh, it'll be alright.

I feel like someone is trying to make a war with france and trying to manipulate us into it. There is nothing to have a war about but i keep seeing headlines like 'france stole vaccines in act of war' 'french threaten to block ports' it makes me very uncomfortable

@SusieBob

The UK is definately in a far worse place than it was when the tories came into power, and whilst a lot of global issues have obviously had their impact the fact is we have had 10+ years of a bunch of self-interested cunts running the country.

The problem remains however that during that time we've had an opposition completely unable to hold that government to account.

I completely agree.

@Lonelycrab

It just means that people are going to be too busy surviving to react

I think that rather depends on how many people survive, and how many don’t. I can see an awful lot of people not being able to keep their head above water in the coming months.

I agree that people won't keep their heads above water LonelyCrab

I guess we need a definition of societal collapse. I think we can rule out the rioting and looting sort of collapse. I'm not sure we can rule out the tent cities, ambulances not reaching people, even more children not being fed or kept warm sort of collapse.

Our society also can not take rolling blackouts of the 70s. Look what happened to one tiny example when whatsapp broke for 6 hours earlier this week. People couldn't communicate to arrange work rostas. Extrapolate that to not actually having electricity across the system. Not being able to work from home... So let's not even go there as an option.

Ah yes - we weren't sure whether we were going to die of AIDS or a nuclear war. Honestly, compared to that, COVID is a piece of piss

Add to that IRA bombs (in London), Thatcher was denying the existence of society, Ronald Reagan was launching 'star wars' and Chernobyl blew up. The 1980s were certainly more scary than the 2020s are

And the Falklands War. I was very frightened it would escalate

And mortgage interest rates over 15%

I wonder if being older has given me a sense of perspective . A lot isn't great at the moment, but I don't feel the sense of catastrophe / impending doom that some do on here

Inflation is one thing that I hope won’t spiral.

On climate change it’ll get gradually worse for some other others. I googled as I don’t know much on detail

time.com/5687470/cities-countries-most-affected-by-climate-change/

The same industries which were so utterly viable, Labour didn't see fit to reopen?

We are on the way out of a global pandemic where demand is suddenly spiking towards pre pandemic levels. Of course prices will rise, they will normalise.

As for self serving politicians, just how much did the Blairs avoid in stamp duty?

@ohfourfoxache

It feels a bit like we’re all frogs in water that is being gradually heated

Every time something happens we just alter slightly, think “it’s not so bad” and get on with it

But there is so much at the moment that it feels overwhelming

I do wonder at what point we’re going to reach boiling point. And what will happen thereafter

I think this sums it up very well, it’s a culmination of a lot of things.

I do think the big underlying thing is climate change though - it’s deeply unpredictable how that will play out. I don’t think the media are panicking enough about that tbh. I’m not a climate scientist but work on the periphery of that world and things are bleaker than they’ve ever been and they were pretty bleak ten years ago. It’s now perfectly possible that my daughter will see London engulfed within her lifetime. No one can really predict how things will play out exactly, it could be absolutely catastrophic.

@notanothertakeaway

Ah yes - we weren't sure whether we were going to die of AIDS or a nuclear war. Honestly, compared to that, COVID is a piece of piss

Add to that IRA bombs (in London), Thatcher was denying the existence of society, Ronald Reagan was launching 'star wars' and Chernobyl blew up. The 1980s were certainly more scary than the 2020s are

And the Falklands War. I was very frightened it would escalate

And mortgage interest rates over 15%

I wonder if being older has given me a sense of perspective . A lot isn't great at the moment, but I don't feel the sense of catastrophe / impending doom that some do on here

It's precisely my memory of things in the past that is giving me my perspective - that things can get really bad and suprisingly quickly. I look at what is happening now and can see where we are headed. I really don't want to return there.

It's a horrible time to be alive

Statistically speaking, it really really isn't. The doomsayers could do with reading 'Factfulness - 10 Reasons We're Wrong About the World and Why Things are Better than We Think' by Hans Rosling.
here

Ah yes - we weren't sure whether we were going to die of AIDS or a nuclear war. Honestly, compared to that, COVID is a piece of piss

Add to that IRA bombs (in London), Thatcher was denying the existence of society, Ronald Reagan was launching 'star wars' and Chernobyl blew up. The 1980s were certainly more scary than the 2020s are

And the Falklands War. I was very frightened it would escalate

Thing is, these were all existential threats. What is happening now is that we are a rudderless, bitterly divided country and our problems have been largely created by our own elected government. That is why we are in such a dangerous position- we’re destroying ourselves.

@Sarahlou63

Interest rates will not rise, the government will make sure of that, even if it do so meaning that they need to take direct control of the BoE, because if interest rates rise it is political suicide for the government.

The majority of Conservative voters are retired, or close to retirement, with little debt and lots of savings which are being eroded by (the rapidly increasing inflation rate). They would be DELIGHTED if interest rates rose.

Don't be naive.

I said Conservative supporters, not voters, there is a difference. The supporters, the ones who donate to the party and heavily influence policy will be very wealthy and often have large borrowing funding investment (Borrow £100 million at 1.2%, buy property with a yield of 7-15%, net gain). Those people don't want interest rates to rise because it does not benefit them and would cause huge economic damage. Inflation for the highly leveraged supporters is actually a good thing, it erodes debt and may even put them into a situation where their interest rate is effectively negative.

@mikedyson I had a thought while doing the school run and a massive story would be some type of memo with Johnson's name all over it agreeing to the form of action of sending Covid positive people back into care homes,

External not existential

I feel like someone is trying to make a war with france and trying to manipulate us into it. There is nothing to have a war about but i keep seeing headlines like 'france stole vaccines in act of war' 'french threaten to block ports' it makes me very uncomfortable

It's just distraction, quick look there & blame them so no one notices whats going on over here.

@OddSockReunion

MatildaIThink *@Sarahlou63* *Yup, I think you're right. The cycle is just about at the top, as soon as interest rates start rising (probably early 2022) there will be a massive "correction". Nothing to do with Boris and his buffoons, obviously Interest rates will not rise, the government will make sure of that, even if it do so meaning that they need to take direct control of the BoE, because if interest rates rise it is political suicide for the government. Also, with the majority of the Conservatives and their supporters (not necessarily voters), being owners of large property portfolios they will not allow the hosing market to crash, it will be sustained at all costs, even if that means damage to the wider economy.*

Really? After all of these years of economic turmoil you haven't even looked at the most basic information?

The BOE's remit is to keep inflation at 2%. It's currently 4%. They are allowing some time to see where it stabilises because Covid has skewed it a bit BUT it's pretty obvious inflation is rising a lot right now, in real terms NOT just Covid impact - on many of the items in the basket "basket of goods" used to calculate it such as housing, fuel and food - so to think the bank won't raise interest rates is bananas, frankly.

I really hope you have no mortgage or debts if you have no clue as to how the very basics of the financial system works. The Bank will absolutely raise interest rates if inflation does not reduce by itself, and there are no signs or market forces indicating that it will at present: quite the opposite. The Bank have warned of this for years, repeatedly. Do you think they will just let inflation run away? They have a remit: they will carry it out.

If you are relying on that your only hope is for the Government to save you by changing the BOE remit which is highly unlikely to happen because runaway inflation erodes wealth. Who do you think is in power right now? Oh...

That is the banks current remit, it does not mean it won't be changed, especially as inflation is less important to Conservative supporters than interest rate rises.

I have no debts and would still be entirely financially comfortable if my mortgage payments were to go up fivefold, there is no wishful thinking, it is largely an irrelevance.

Inflation does not erode wealth that is not held in cash, asset, property, shares, bonds etc. are not hugely impacted by inflation, in many cases they can actually rise as people move cash into assets.

Do you think they will just let inflation run away?
I do not think they will let inflation run away, I do think they will let it run high rather than risk tanking the economy or crashing the housing market. Letting inflation run hot for a few years would be far from the end of the world.

@notanothertakeaway

Ah yes - we weren't sure whether we were going to die of AIDS or a nuclear war. Honestly, compared to that, COVID is a piece of piss

Add to that IRA bombs (in London), Thatcher was denying the existence of society, Ronald Reagan was launching 'star wars' and Chernobyl blew up. The 1980s were certainly more scary than the 2020s are

And the Falklands War. I was very frightened it would escalate

And mortgage interest rates over 15%

I wonder if being older has given me a sense of perspective . A lot isn't great at the moment, but I don't feel the sense of catastrophe / impending doom that some do on here

I think it all depends on age and circumstances. So if you were younger but had a mortgage you probably didn't see a light at the end of the tunnel. If you're older and most of your mortgage is paid off it may not be as bad as it some to others.

How many people died of AIDS compared to those that died of coronavirius in the UK in 1 year?

I think the threat of nuclear war is still viable tbh.