To know anyone irl with munchausens?

[Lw87]

Watching the gypsy rose doc, I'd never heard of munchausens disease before and can't even think I'd know anyone with it in real life

Has anyone actually had an RL encounter with someone with this?

@julieca

But some people do make things up for benefits. It might be a small number, but they do.

I'd be amazed if they could convince a professional that a child is autistic. The diagnostic tests, if you can actually get a child in front of one, are intense and the parents are usually not present.

As someone said upthread benefits are needs based. Someone could make up that a child has needs to get access to benefits but they run the risk of being found out because the claims form is backed up by medical reports etc.

And what @GreatestHits said re benefits too.
(in friends case she waited a year after her 1st was dx'd to even apply for DLA as she was advised to as she was reluctant to apply. ( (a false accusation of Fii leaves a mark). When she did, he was awarded High rate for both care and mobility, which meant she was able to apply for Carers allowance (£67 a week...) She didn't do so. Later when his health deteriorated (& he was hospitalised due to ASD related bullying at Secondary School) she did & is now a Carer.
I am sure she'd rather neither her child nor she had had any of that!

@Flossie44 I'm sorry your DD has it too.

@allergyupset

These people who completely fabricate a whole story and life about having cancer, I sometimes wonder what happens if that person actually gets cancer later on.

It's unpleasant. The lies unravel, the people impacted and taken in by those lies deal with the fallout, and there's the added element of all of the doctor-hopping that makes it difficult to get treatment for genuine illness.

The hospital had to stabilise the person I know, when she overdosed and wound up gravely ill. They did not, and were clear they WOULD not, treat her further based on past history. She wound up in an expensive private inpatient MH centre, which she promptly got herself released from as soon as she could.

The person in question has more money than they can spend in a lifetime, so they are able to continue the pattern as long as they can find private medical professionals.

@sociallydistained

Eminem’s mum had this! I believe his little brother was put into care at one point because of it.

She did!

It actually ended quite badly I think with Eminem becoming his legal guardian. I'm sure there were other siblings too.

He blames her spiking his food with sedatives as a child the start of his drug abuse.

He is also "disabled" but manages to walk around London all day on daytrips, haul heavy fishing equipment, build large animal enclosures and mow lawns etc.

I could do all of those things (lifting things in moderation though). I still have a perfectly legitimate disability, diagnosed by the Medical Genetics service (NHS). It's a connective tissue disorder - similar to EDS but not. Indeed, for a time I thought I might have EDS - turns out I wasn't far off.

Plenty of doctors had missed the connective tissue disorder, including those who ought to have known better. I only got diagnosed after I worked out what it was on Google, went to my GP and insisted on a referral.

I'm glad it's not EDS though as apparently many on this thread would assume I was making it up if I was

Just as some people are annoyed at others saying yes, they know people like this, I'm annoyed at THEM for the gaslighting dismissal on this thread that no no, those poor women are in fact all genuinely unwell, and society is just mean.

Years of therapy helped me unpick and understand my mum's issues more. Like fuck was she dying of cancer or the dozens and dozens of specialist issues she claimed and subjected us all to. Like I said, she's still going
strong.

I don't care if randoms on the internet don't like it. There are some people with major problems around in real life, and yes, some of them have kids and friends, and many of us will have seen the thread title and come to talk about it.

These people who completely fabricate a whole story and life about having cancer, I sometimes wonder what happens if that person actually gets cancer later on

That's not Munchhausens, that is premeditated fraud.

@Rosemaryandlemon

Anyone saddened/shocked to hear the comments of “medical professionals” on this thread saying patients seem to be making up symptoms for benefits? No wonder people with chronic illness and conditions like FND are so desperate to find an organic cause and seek more test, because it appears for a lot of medics unless there is something they can see on a test or scan you are faking it.

Did you read my post where I explained the difference between malingering and other illness behaviours

Usually done to get money or other financial benefits.

I bought a house once from a woman who said she was selling because her husband had left her when she was diagnosed with cancer, she was going through chemo (she'd lost her hair and wore a headscarf) and generally having a very difficult time. Obviously I tried to make the whole thing as easy for her as I could - who wouldn't, under the circumstances? - paid up without question for all the extras etc etc... Found out later that there was nothing wrong with her - she'd shaved her head, and spun all sorts of stories round the village and at her daughter's school. I felt really sorry for the daughter, her mother was clearly very disturbed. She moved out of the area, and I did sometimes wonder what became of them.

I did @123Applesauce456, but did you read @FateHasRedesignedMost post? She appears to be working with patients with diagnosis of FND and says it feels like they are inventing symptoms…

I knew someone who insisted on coming into school every day to feed her son lunch, because she was convinced he would choke to death if she didn't. No reason he would have done, ie no SEN or anything, but the school indulged her.

@coachmylife as the parent of a child whom it took medics several years to diagnose correctly, I feel your pain (I never had issues flagged, but was always aware there was a risk they'd think I was making it up). Ironically, in our case it was a GOSH consultant who pulled together all the symptoms I'd been told were entirely unrelated.

There is very little chance (likey impossible) of getting a diagnosis of autism if you arent autistic.

If there is any doubt then they wont diagnose and say insufficient evidence. Many autistic people dont get a autism diagnosis and are told to ask for a referal in secondary or as an adult if still struggling.

Autism is a spectrum and so not all people would be obv to untrained joe public

It's now Fabricated Illness Syndrome . Ive met a few 'By Proxy' but it's terribly hard to prove.

The one I know has built her entire persona around the long list of illnesses she apparently has. Any medical condition she hears of someone having she googles, develops symptoms of and goes to the doctor to convince them she has it. Fibromyalgia, cfs, eds, pots, autism adhd all the usual. Claims every benefit she can and lives a normal life doing active hobbies and drinking every night. Sad part is she's passed it on to her child, they aim to please her (as children do) and go along with her whispers in there ear. As soon as friends pick up on her manipulating her child (three of us so far have heard her telling the child what to say to doctors) she falls out with them in dramatic fashion, tells everyone they're evil and moves on to the next. The best liar I ever met.
Feel so sorry for her child. We're hopeful they'll grow up and run but she's very controlling so probably not

@coachmylife

When DD had a weird set of symptoms it was entirely clear that this was suspected by our GOSH team. I remain utterly horrified that they focused on me (as imagined perpetrator) and didn’t really investigate what was causing DD’s (admittedly bizarre) symptoms. Her condition is one that has been associated w FII, but that FII was the conclusion they leapt to (not a genuine medical condition) appals me. They had absolutely not one shred of evidence to do this - just the association.

Yep.

Thats one of the issue I have with munchausens. Often when the symptoms look weird, they can't quite put their finger on what's gping on and the parent insists there is something wrong then it's automatically 'Oh it's munchausens'.

Sometimes, it feels like it's easy way out tbh.

I think it's difficult often. I have a friend for whom I am uncomfortable about.

When the children were little she clearly loved the attention if they were ill. Never ever did I suspect her of making it up, but occasionally was a little more dramatic (like telling A&E that they were throwing up after a head injury when they'd coughed a little).
Then as the children got older she had times of being very tearful because she was convinced one or other had various conditions, often after another friend's child had been diagnosed. We're talking about things like dyslexia, nothing major. None of them were ever diagnosed, and as soon as one worry went, there would be a worry about a difference child.

The older children left home, and she was saying how she's really missing them, but the youngest was due to go off to uni...
Then that summer her youngest was hospitalised out of the blue, with one of the conditions that have been mentioned here, having had no prior symptoms.
Since then (about 5 years ago now) she seems to have been in and out of hospital, all we ever hear from them is "cheeky pop out of the hospital" or "new feeding tube," "feeling much better after last night's A&E trip" "dashing off to hospital..."
And her dd who was all ready to go off to uni and leave home is now at home because she couldn't manage alone etc, and all their life is about her illness.

I do feel mean suspecting her. I wouldn't have thought she would make it up from nothing though, but I would have thought exaggeration is more her line.
Thing is that having had no symptoms at all that were noticed, she was very quickly diagnosed, and at the worse end of the illness, and I would have expected it to at least be more gradual. So I think her dd does probably have something, but not to the extend she presents to the world.

@FateHasRedesignedMost

physically unexplained symptoms, non-epileptic seizures do not always have a psychological cause. One of the reasons behind the change from conversion disorder to functional neurological disorder was because there were patients where no underlying psychological problems could be found. These patients would get batted from neurology and psychiatry (and still often do)

Out of interest what non-psychological causes have been found?

My experience is neurology admits and reviews patient first, rules out any obvious or serious neurological cause, then refers to psychiatry for further investigation. It’s common for psychiatry inpatients to have ongoing out-patient neurology appointments or attend repeat MRI scans etc. They are often under psychiatry and neurology at the same time.

IME there is no organic cause found for pseudo seizures, hence the name. No abnormal electrical patterns, no loss of bowel/bladder control, no post ichytal phase, no tongue biting. Often these non epileptic seizures occur when a patient is distressed (almost like a panic attack), or feels neglected/lonely/seeking comfort and attention from staff on a busy ward, when staff can’t give that psychological support due to other situations going on.

I’ve never come across patients who suffer pseudo seizures in the absence of any MH condition though I’m sure there must be some rare cases.

As for FND, I had a patient who was admitted to psychiatry in an electric wheelchair, having had her house fully kitted out with adaptive equipment. Claimed to be unable to weight bare yet managed to transfer independently WB when she thought staff weren’t watching, and somehow got from one side of a bathroom with a wet floor to the other without getting her jeans wet (despite claiming she’d crawled). A specialist FND placement was unsuccessful as she refused to engage with physiotherapy.

A different patient claimed she couldn’t walk, had used a wheelchair for years, yet suddenly got up and walked about independently. So had clearly been walking in secret or her muscles would have wasted.

It’s frustrating for staff, because of course there COULD be something physically wrong, or symptoms could be trauma related, but often it feels like the patient is inventing symptoms; sometimes they do have a motivation, like claiming higher rate PIP or receiving more input and resources from services.

OR they actually need MH support and should be treated with the same respect than if they had a physical illness....

I hate the word 'pseudo' because it is basically saying that it's not true. So each time the patient is talking about their diagnosis, every time, they are reminded that somehow what they have isn't serious/a real illness.
Despite the fact they do get seizures (or whatever physical symptoms they might have).

It's a shame because it is well known that mental health issues can lead to very physical symptoms. Telling patients those symptoms are 'all in their heads' isn't particularly helpful.

[quote Becca19962014]@Flossie44 no it's not. There's specific physiological changes that are necessary for the diagnosis, not "just" pain. I have it as a result of an untreated fracture, my hand goes purple and swells, I've no hair on it, my skin is extremely thin (even more than usual), my nails are warped. I do physio every day but am still in agony with it. As I have EDS as well that effects CRPS.

I was told by one dr it was simply cured by physio,meffort and wanting to get better. This is not the case.

What left of the bone got fractured again and I was put in plaster, it needed to be removed within 24 hours and I could be heard screaming down the corridor - someone actually rang the police as they thought I was being assulted.

Many people lose limbs to it. It's a very nasty.[/quote]
My ed has CRPS, and has done for about 12 years now (she's 23) She has the colour changes, the brittle nails, freezing cold feet, the incredible sensitivity to a breeze or even just the air around her. She has it in her heels, her ribs and her hands. She has to use a wheelchair to get about outside of the house and we all wish the inside was suitable for her to do the same as it's so painful for her to get about. She has finally got referred to our local pain team again (she did see them once, but nothing really happened, and she was away at uni when she should have got hold of them so she was removed from their books). Hopefully this time there will be some help for her.
It's a horrible horrible condition and I wish it could be cured.

MIL nipped in this afternoon and for some reason I mentioned this thread in passing.

BIL has struggled with his 'nerves' since he was a little boy. Very anxious, emotional, depressed, extreme highs and lows etc which led to aggression/meltdowns etc.

According to MIL she was accused of fabricating his moods after about the twentieth visit to the doctor/meeting with school. Asked if she wanted to be something wrong and made to feel as though she was making him unwell. She used to give him Kalms, herbal meds and Rescue Remedies which apparently was seen as quite taboo in the 90's.

She stopped taking him to the doctors and tried to deal with it at home after they threatened social services if she wasn't coping.

After he attempted suicide in his late teens he was finally diagnosed with bipolar disorder. The doctors were stunned it had never been picked up.

BIL now advocates for MH in children and YA and is doing phenomenally well on medication and therapy.

I imagine medical professionals are in such a delicate position regarding parents who they suspect fabricate or exaggerate symptoms.

Feel for both the doctors and the parents who are on the receiving end of the unfair complaint. It seems such a difficult disorder to diagnose.

There's a couple I keep seeing all over social media and there's somethng really off about them.... both in wheelchairs, although one wasn't when I first saw them pop up.
I dunno, could be completely genuine, but the list of illnesses and disabilities seems to get longer every time I see them appear.

My SIL by proxy but with only one of her children. Made out he had all sorts of food allergies and then an issue he needed an operation for that needed an operation for (went to a medical board to be refused). He’s turned 18 and eats all the things he was ‘allergic’ too and the physical issue disappeared overnight. She used to make him vomit if he ate the wrong things and he missed big chunks of school. He didn’t do well.

I also knew someone who home educated her children, made up a load of reasons why they couldn’t go to school. Soon as they were older, went to college, she self diagnosed herself with fibromyalgia. I think it’s an avoidance tactic, means she doesn’t have to work or commit to things.

@longtompot - I’m so sorry your dd is going through this too. It’s a cruel cruel condition.
I think if any MH issue is connected, it’s due to the sheer intensity of pain (worse than childbirth apparently), and not the primary cause of illness