Would let a 16 year old leave school?

[Sillawithans]

Obviously it's better if he stays in school but he absolutely hates, hates, hates it.

Would you consider letting him leave school?

He's 16 so can actually leave if he wants to but he'd walk away with no qualifications whatsoever?

@Bobsyer I haven't suggested to him he can leave school, he doesn't even realise it himself. I want to be absolutely sure of his options first. I've asked him if he would like to change schools, he said no. Last week I told him and my other son who is 15 and in year 9 also that I would be getting them a Maths tutor to help them in the run up to the leaving cert. I'm massive on education and want to give them every opportunity for their future. Thank you for your kind words, they mean a lot

@DukeofEarlGrey there would be no camaraderie whatsoever, his dad would work him to the bone!

[quote Sillawithans]@Littlepaws18 I have a pain in my face explaining that he would end up in low paid jobs but at 16 he can't see further than next week.[/quote]
It's not necessaryly true he will end up in low paid jobs for life. Schools do not suite everyone and plenty leave and then go back into courses after a few years and find something they are good at and do very well.
It's not great to say decisions made at 16 are life defining, they are not.
What are the chances of him getting any exam passes if he is forced to stay. Better to look at other options if he is so determined it is not for him.

@Sillawithans

Obviously it's better if he stays in school but he absolutely hates, hates, hates it.

Would you consider letting him leave school?

He's 16 so can actually leave if he wants to but he'd walk away with no qualifications whatsoever?

Absolutely let him leave. School is not for everyone. Education is important but too much emphasis is placed on it and mental health is more important. I know quite a few people who have no qualifications and are very successful (work for themselves).

[quote Sillawithans]@Embracelife no learning difficulties. I think missing the first few years of school where they learn basic Maths, timestables etc has been so detrimental for him. Terrible really. He's a very bright, switched on kid, just not academic. He does enjoy some subjects just not the important ones like Maths and English.[/quote]
Has he ever had a full assessment?

You say
"Not a bit academic, very good with his hands and very bright."

He could have specific learning issues for maths and English
?
Yes he missed couple years school .so do many refugee children who rapidly catch up. There might be more to it
On any case no one will learn if they hate the place they sent to.
Let him leave
Do a proper job or training

Look to his abilities and strengths
He can do maths and English later maybe after assessment to see what approach might work for him

Yes I absolutely would if there was a way to get him into work/an apprenticeship. We are not all academics and being desperately unhappy isn't something I would ever want to see my child being.

Didn't realize in Ireland till leaving cert mentioned.
He can do a PLC to access higher education or plenty of options post leaving. He can leave but that certainly isn't the end of options if he ever wants to go back. And low pay isn't inevitable at all. He might work for himself of run a business. No need to let this limit anything. We had one who was more or less forced to do leaving cert. Did pretty rubbish (moved schools in final year too) left, went traveling for a year, did a PLC in a non school subject, got distinctions, and is now at NUIG and doing fine. They hated school but University suites them fine. Another 540 points but skipped university and worked at entry level and is now in a EU Country working professionally. Need to find an interest.

I agree with @ClareBlue in that identifying his interests and career aims is going to be key to how you support him moving forward.

I’m not sure I would force him to spend another two years somewhere he hates every day. I’d be tempted to let him have a gap year of home ed then go back to do qualifications, possibly at a further education college or home ed route etc.

The way we educate children is pretty messed up and for many of them it doesn’t work, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to look at other options but it’s hard to know what they are local to you.

It doesn’t have to be ‘school or no qualifications’, some home educated children pass their maths gcse at age ten 🤷‍♀️ Maybe he would benefit from a different way of learning.

I don’t know it sounds very hard, good luck to all of you.

I'm 100% sympathetic to the situation you're in and would 100% share your concerns but... You can tell a 16 year old about 'the future' until you're blue in the face and they will not listen to you.

What's really important to get from the meeting with school is where he is and what's achievable within this year. And what other options they can signpost you towards. My own DS would have left school this year if it wasn't for Covid (he has SEN) and would have started college - as a lot of that is still virtual just now he has grudgingly agreed to a final year at school but is hating it and it's a real struggle for everyone. But I don't know how things are where you are and college might be a better option for him, for example.

You have a child who isn't achieving and knows he isn't achieving, who is feeling frustrated by everything and who (it sounds) is out of step with his peer group. Just staying at school isn't magically going to fix that.

You need a real, a really real, convo with school and then the two of you need to get your heads together to work out what might be a good next step. Working over the holidays is a good idea - you may find that's the making of him. Going straight into work with an apprenticeship or further training might be what he needs, or college, or more school support. But listening to 100s of knee-jerk 'you can't do anything without a bunch of qualifications you have to get at a specific time in school' posts won't help the DS if he already believes that this is completely outwith his reach.

If you could get him to stay to Junior Cert, the Leaving Cert Applied Programme might be a good fit for him. There is a thread on Craicnet about it. His age is problematic isn't it. My son is doing his junior cert this year and is 14, won't be 15 til next April.

I wouldn't let him leave without a plan. I would look into youthreach. My friend teaches in one and they do their best to guide teenagers in the right direction. I might be wrong but I thought the junior cert at the very least was required for most things like plcs and apprenticeships.

I have a kid that will be doing their Junior Cert next year and personally I would do everything in my power to make sure he at least completes that but being honest I would say the same about the leaving cert. Ireland on the whole has a very educated workforce, even not doing the leaving cert will make things 10 times harder for him but not even doing the Junior cert would be beyond limiting I would think.

There is some info here about different things that are available for early school leavers, it might help you a bit www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/primary_and_post_primary_education/educational_supports/early_school_leavers_programmes.html

Yes. We had one doing applied maths. It is completely different and more project and, well, applied. The applied courses score low on certs but they are completely different and might spark interest.
I did a module for early school leavers in a local TEC in Tipperary on legislation around health (this was 10 years ago, pre Covid) Most were girls who left early after becoming pregnant but there was a mixture up to 20. All had left school under pretty bad situations, some had been in detention, but all of them got something out of it that they never got from school. School really doesn't meet a significant number of young people's needs.

@NoYOUbekind he absolutely does know he's not achieving and this is the biggest problem for me. It's killing his confidence and his ability to believe in himself.

Why doesn’t he just go to his local technical college and sit his GCSE’s there with people his age, or learn a trade in the college, they have full time courses.

@theleafandnotthetree this is the hardest age......and I have 4 teenagers. They'd honestly drive you insane.

We're in Scotland. My dd2 left school in 2020 aged 16, but due to the way her birthday fell, already had some reasonable qualifications. She has hated school since primary 1 and there didn't seem to be anything to be gained by forcing her back. She got herself a place at college to study beauty therapies and is in her second year. She just got a part time job in a spa using the skills she learned last year.

But at the bottom of this was the fact that she does have her Nat5s and a couple of highers, she wouldn't have got on the course without them.

Personally I wouldn't let him leave this year, even minimum wage jobs want English and Maths and just an indication that you've got the wherewithal to apply yourself, even if you don't enjoy what you're doing. Leaving with nothing is a very risky strategy, I'd say.

Is there anyway to get a full assessment even now? My son had an assessment aged 21. It gave him a lot of insight as he was extremely bright but had a terrible processing speed. This kid might not have dyslexia or similar but there may still be something going on.

Also is there any such thing as a technical high school? (there used to be the Crawford Tech years ago in Cork). Ds's friend was a completely hyperactive kid who found sitting and learning really difficult. He went to a technical high school where he sat academic subjects but also tried out "trade" like stuff and eventually finished doing welding. He went on to university and now has a degree in geology. Among his parents friends there was absolute shock at sending a kid to technical school but he probably wouldn't have finished high school if in a traditional academic place

@Pallisers I will speak to his school about an assessment. I'm open to anything that helps him. I always try and fine a compromise with my children and with him I think a good compromise would be working towards a qualification while doing something practical. So something like a plumbing apprenticeship with 1 day per week in the classroom or similar.

It's so hard to know what to do for the best!

Just because he leaves School doesn't mean that is the end of his education. Work for a couple of years and see how he sees it then.
Nothing wrong with getting some life experience before then continuing education. The worst thing that can happen is him being labelled a failure and not capable of achieving anything. Schools are very quick to do this, and there is a very real snobbery in Ireland about the leaving and it being the only way to achieve. It absolutely isn't. Education, yes, but the formal school system isn't the only option. Destroyed confidence and labeling as failure by a system that fails vast sections of our children are the real issues. That's our challenge as parents, to ensure our children have the support and confidence to take future opportunities. There will always be opportunities for him even if he leaves School at 16. Good luck with the meeting.
He didn't start in a Steiner did he? They are not good for doing the basic English and Maths and often let them start a couple of years later.

Can you not homeschooling through the exams he needs to take to finish and then he can be done with it. Better to do that than quit altogether and have to resit things later down the line.

*homeschool

For all the people mentioning apprenticeships, the last intake at my workplace had about 1000 applicants for half a dozen apprenticeship places, someone with no formal qualifications will have no chance against everyone else.

If you know a family friend or relative who's a tradesmen, they may take them on as an apprentice, that's a different matter, but out in independent industries, I think it's a given they'll struggle.

Also, all the people saying kids "have" to stay in school, work, or training till 18 in England now, yes, they changed the rules, but there's no laws associated with it, so no penalties can be levied against it, you can't be fined or jailed for it, and neither can your child; if they leave school at 16 in England.

@Fleshmechanic my plan was to get a home tutor for maths as this subject is his nemesis. Sees a Maths text book and says nope, not doing it. I used to take the maths book out of it and get him to work out change in the shop, vat rates, fractions by cutting up pizza, that sort of thing. Probably useless, but I just wanted to let him see that he could do maths , use them in the real world. I wanted to build his confidence. He's a great kid.