to think what Boris Johnson has said today is unacceptable?

[NoviceNewMN]

first he has said (I'm guessing as a sop to commercial landlords complaining about properties being abandoned by businesses) that everyone needs to go back to work because they will be gossiped about:

"You have got to be able to come in, you have got to know what everyone else is talking about – otherwise you are going to be gossiped about and you are going to lose out"

Really? Firstly so what? and secondly, it's basically condoning bullying as a reason to get back to work.

Then he has said

'It's not the job of government to come in and try and fix every problem in business and industry."

Boris says it is 'not my job to fix all of the UK's problems': PM’s astonishing claim as he denies nation is in 'crisis' and DISMISSES inflation spike fears, fuel shortages and empty supermarket shelves as 'just part of his new approach'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10060043/Boris-denies-claims-supply-chain-chaos-just-ending-UKs-low-wage-economy.html

@catgirl1976

Why on earth should people "get back to work"? Those working from home are already "at work". Work is a verb - a thing you do, not a place.

And companies that cannot move with the times will lose talent.

Trouble is that companies will also lose talent with the inevitable eventual shortfall in younger workers coming through the ranks. The school/Uni leavers either won't be taken on at all, or will take longer to be trained if there are few people actually in the workplace to train them. The next thing, in a few years, will be business & industry bleating that they can't get experienced/qualified staff - the workers who'd usually have been taken on to train last year, this year and next year!

@Dreamstate

As a previous poster said the Tory politi s aren't to micromanage peoples lives for them. That's socialism and they are not socialists. You want thr state to basically do everything for you go vote Labour in and see how you like being molly coddled.

Some of you would probably like it if the government paid for everything, dealt with everything and gave you xx amount to spend on whatever you like without having to worry about paying bills etc.

So why are they presumptions enough to tell us where we should be doing our work from?

@JinglingHellsBells

But I can see if you work in a relaxed office without much work, then being in the office and chatting a lot will make you more likely to be promoted.

Oh no, quite the opposite.

The people I know who are IN offices are snr management, who need to talk to each other face to face. They don't have time to chat or slack if that's what you mean!

I guess it depends where you work. When I was in management a lot of people were out of the office on visits and meetings during the day anyway, so all conversation between managers except for scheduled meetings in advance, was always virtually anyway. In my current workplace, I find it much easier to get hold of people for a quick meeting online, than I did when I was trying to talk to people in the office. Even our CEO is fairly easy now to get hold of for a quick chat about a project. A lot of time is wasted during in person meetings. Sometimes that is necessary, but a lot of the time it is just people avoiding actual work.

@JinglingHellsBells

Leaders in industry have been saying for months that successful careers and businesses are best achieved when people work face to face.

If you read the business pages of the broadsheets, many respected CEOs are saying that the way to get on in a company is to be there, physically, and also that interaction between colleagues in informal settings ( lunches, over the coffee machine etc) are vital to good working practices.

You can't build a career working from home for the rest of your life.

I think you’ll find you can. I know people who have done just that. One of my most competent and highly regarded colleagues has been working from home for manny years now, long before the pandemic.

*Many not manny.

If it’s not his job to try and fix every problem in business and industry he can refrain from commenting on aspects of it that are working then, like home working, can’t he.

Trouble is that companies will also lose talent with the inevitable eventual shortfall in younger workers coming through the ranks
On the contrary - younger workers are refusing jobs that don’t offer at least partial WFH. They value work-life balance and see no need to get on the treadmill of commuting every day. DH has been having huge trouble employing a graduate trainee because they all decline when they find out the job doesn’t offer any WFH.

@Badbadbunny you make arrangements. Our new apprentice is in the office with a few other staff. But he has met far more of us in online meetings in his first week of work than he would have in a busy office.
No one is saying that we should have no one in offices, but employers and staff can sort out for themselves what works best. They don't need government micro managing.
What next? Are they going to start telling us that buying a takeaway coffee makes us more productive and makes our colleagues like us more?
I mean it is just so transparent.

Can’t abide Boris or the Tory ethos but I agree with what he said about business and industry. They have benefitted from low pay, unsociable hours and poor working conditions for too long so they could pour money into their shareholders pockets.

Look at how many billions the supermarkets make but now can’t get drivers to deliver their stock. They should have been investing in that a long time ago, that’s not the government’s fault.

My DH is a HGV driver for a supermarket and they were relying heavily on agency drivers which of which a large proportion were Eastern European because they didn’t want to give out proper contracts. Now they can’t get them and they’re desperate, they’ve doubled the hourly pay for agency drivers but kept the contract workers on the same amount. At one depot all the drivers walked out as they could walk straight into new jobs. It was no surprise we’d be in this situation now.

@EarlGreywithLemon what does that person do for a job?

If you are a chief exec (ceo, cfo, cmo) of a major company or on the board of directors, say Tesco, or Waitrose, or J Lewis, you can't work from home for all of your time. Or if you are work at the Stock Exchange etc.

If the person you know is self employed ( sole trader or small business owner) that's different.

A lot of time is wasted during in person meetings. Sometimes that is necessary, but a lot of the time it is just people avoiding actual work.

I find myself actually scheduling my formal meetings, boards etc for the days I'm WFH. I really like hybrid but there's no way I'm wasting office time on sitting in meetings - I get the most out of my office days working alongside people, getting on with collaborative task work, having more junior staff members shadow me - the things that are less easy to do (though still possible) from home.

I don't buy, though, that you can't train people remotely. We've had new interns, new apprentices and people early in their careers join in the last eighteen months. Was it as satisfying an experience than being in the office fulltime? Almost certainly not. But we were still able to train and induct and integrate them into the team and work on their skills and capabilities remotely. They're all doing really well, meeting and exceeding targets. It helps that we've hired good people, but it's also helped that we've been responsive to them and willing to tweak and adjust where things aren't working. It's surprised me that it's actually as much some of the junior people who don't want to be back in the office 5 days a week as the seniors.

It's certainly not been perfect - we've definitely screwed some things up, and some things are definitely easier in person. But let's not pretend that under hybrid or majority WFH models, people just won't (or can't) get trained. I'm sure there are some places where it will happen like that. I wouldn't stay at one of those places for long, though, and TBH they don't deserve to do well.
And yes, a lot of the City workers I know - investment banks, Big 4, etc - have been doing a hybrid model for years, especially if they are working across time zones.

[quote RumblyMumbly]@MintJulia but when we look at the current problems - HGV driver shortages, empty shelves, pigs being killed without entering the food chain, the public being more financially stretched for everyday life(and the NI increase is yet to be implemented) - Johnson & co are busily pointing to industry, the public, the media, basically anywhere but at their policies and actions.

Johnson is right that it's 'not my job to fix all of the UK's problems' However, as he has been absolutely instrumental in creating many of the current problems, I don't think he should get off the hook that lightly![/quote]
This in spades.

As someone who is currently trying to deal with 11 different organisations who neither return calls or emails because they are all ‘working from home’, I will be bloody glad when they get back into the office and provide the service I am paying for.

i thought this was going to be about him refusing to make misogyny a hate crime because it 'would give the police too much work to do'.

What next? Are they going to start telling us that buying a takeaway coffee makes us more productive and makes our colleagues like us more?

It only makes you more productive if you buy it from a chain store though. If it's from an independent cafe that isn't highly leveraged or backed by a global conglomerate it probably doesn't do anything to your productivity.

Or something.

@VickyEadieofThigh

i thought this was going to be about him refusing to make misogyny a hate crime because it 'would give the police too much work to do'.

I can't even find the words from that one. 'We can't make it a hate crime, too many people are doing it.'

The gossip thing is genuinely the worst reason I've ever heard for someone to go back into the office.

Surely the social side, working collaboratively, enjoying new environments, making sure your contribution is visible etc etc etc are much more important?

And that aside, if wfh is working for people and companies, why would you NOT keep it up?

One major company I know is having terrible recruitment and retention issues at the moment as they are telling everyone to be back in the office with no flexibility. The job market is good and people are leaving in their droves.

Also home working decimates smaller businesses like sandwich shops, restaurants and high street shops which have relied on office workers business so he has got a point there.

Also home working decimates smaller businesses like sandwich shops
It doesn’t though. They just need to change location to the suburbs. I’d happily walk to a local sandwich shop at lunchtime.

@GoWalkabout

So he's saying workers need to keep their best interests in mind to get ahead and that businesses need to be in control of their own affairs? Sounds pretty Conservative to me.

But didn’t he say ‘fuck business’ with regard to Brexit.

@Weirdwonders

If it’s not his job to try and fix every problem in business and industry he can refrain from commenting on aspects of it that are working then, like home working, can’t he.

Yes exactly!

The idea that it is not government's job to make the country function normally is just insane. Brexit was one of the biggest mistakes in economic history, but Johnson has to keep pedalling as he led us into it.

@HouseworkDodger

Also home working decimates smaller businesses like sandwich shops, restaurants and high street shops which have relied on office workers business so he has got a point there.

Well that isn't the government's problem is it, according to Johnson

You can't have it both ways.

Most of my team work from home without issue. I love not having to trawl around searching for a parking space in the morning. I love the extra time I save from travelling to and from the office, having to wear uncomfortable work clothing and general drudgery. There are too many distractions in the office. When I’m at home I can work in my own space and focus. It feels pointless going into the office just for the sake of it. And if you have to do it just to show you are doing your job then that is pretty sad. I focus on outputs. If I can get the job done and deliver the required results then what’s the problem? I often put in extra hours at the end of the day because I’m so busy. If I was having to travel to and from the office then I just wouldn’t have the energy or time to do it.

[quote JinglingHellsBells]@EarlGreywithLemon what does that person do for a job?

If you are a chief exec (ceo, cfo, cmo) of a major company or on the board of directors, say Tesco, or Waitrose, or J Lewis, you can't work from home for all of your time. Or if you are work at the Stock Exchange etc.

If the person you know is self employed ( sole trader or small business owner) that's different.[/quote]
Senior manager in a large company.

Leaders in industry have been saying for months that successful careers and businesses are best achieved when people work face to face

Some have, some haven't. And most acknowledge that a mix works best.

If people are in the office are spending all their time gossiping about those who are not, it will soon become clear who's actually getting work done.