To think that meat eaters...

[hashbrownsandwich]

Should be comfortable to slaughter animals if they are happy to eat them?

The 'cheap chicken' threads have got me onto this and I'm at home with covid so be gentle!

My own personal background is that I am vegetarian and have been since I was 7. Own decision. I cook meat for my children and my husband because I believe, like i was given, it's a choice that can be made for themselves.

My husband is from farming background and has proactively raised and slaughtered animals. His conscience is entirely clear because he very much has the farmer mindset of raise the animal, give them a good life, dispatch and consume.

It's coming up to 'Turkey time' on the family farm and with the so called shortages forecast this year, I've found myself having more conversations with colleagues about the food chain/supply etc.

We live in an affluent area and we have lots of farm shops, butchers etc. However, I'm shocked that most people I know have said while they couldn't give up meat, they also wouldn't be happy to raise animals for slaughter themselves or to witness their slaughter.

So AIBU to to believe, if you're going to eat meat, it's your moral duty to be ok with animal slaughter?

Just to say, what I've tried in a long winded way above is that i'm not a preachy veggie and I'm not vegan.

I think that @hashbrownsandwich rather than focusing on the slaughter, you ought to focus on animal welfare.

I would rather not eat chicken than buy one for £3.
I think battery farming and tethered pigs are terrible. The animals have awful lives.

I try to eat meat that is free range- some chickens, lamb, pheasant and other game.

It's very patronising to ask if meat eaters could kill the animal.
It's about like asking someone eating a fish finger sandwich if they know that the fish was once a living creature.

So much of our food so far removed from its natural state, or how it was in the wild.

For me, that is where our focus ought to be. But it costs- people would need to go back to the 1950s when a chicken was a treat, not something you eat 5 days a week.

However we do actually have jobs, and by doing that you’d be taking jobs from those who are paid to do it for us.

Paid minimum wage. I do think people taking on the physical and emotional burden of this job should be paid properly. It's not on that they're paid so low.

I buy food from supermarkets because I don't want to have to dig potatoes or pick my own brussels.

I wouldn't want to slaughter an animal (although I have been with more than one when they have been necessarily pts), but nor would I want to work down a coal mine or take someone's appendix out, or be an undertaker, live on an oil rig, drive an underground train, be a prison officer, a sewage plant worker, a social worker, make clothes or shoes, or any number of other occupations.

Horses for courses.

I don't see why "ah, you are comfortable with killing animals, that's cool then, have another burger" is a morality get out of jail free card, but those of us who aren't entirely comfortable with it but eat meat because it's everywhere in our society and a convenient choice should get judged. But it happens a lot.

It's so interesting to me that if I decided to stop feeling conflicted and offer to break a chickens neck to prove it, that it would earn me respect in some quarters, even from non meat eaters.

@waybill

I buy food from supermarkets because I don't want to have to dig potatoes or pick my own brussels.

I wouldn't want to slaughter an animal (although I have been with more than one when they have been necessarily pts), but nor would I want to work down a coal mine or take someone's appendix out, or be an undertaker, live on an oil rig, drive an underground train, be a prison officer, a sewage plant worker, a social worker, make clothes or shoes, or any number of other occupations.

Horses for courses.

ah but none of those (we hope) involve killing a living creature.

You can't compare.

Just to say, what I've tried in a long winded way above is that i'm not a preachy veggie and I'm not vegan.

Hmmm..I think you are actually.

And vegans/vegetarians should be prepared to eat only what is produced locally including supplements. It is, after all, being presented as a more ecological choice.

Wonder how many people would have to move if the above were the case?

What was your train of thought at 7, @hashbrownsandwich?

How did you decide not to eat animals and how did it fit with your family then?

Parents as veggies? Suggested to you? Own decision somehow?

I’m a meat eater and I do agree with most of what you’ve said. There’s such a disjoint between supermarket pre packed filleted everything that people seem to loose the connection that eating meat means an animal was slaughtered so you can have a delightful meal. For the same reason I’m a fan of nose to tail eating, eating more ‘unusual’ cut of meat and have no problem with bones, gristle. I’ve met so many people who are disgusted with the idea of eating off bones or seeing any gristle or even gasp offal. If an animal has to die for your meal, at least have the decency to use every bit of it.

that it would earn me respect in some quarters, even from non meat eaters.

My comment above is more pointing out that it's not an unskilled job, and it has an emotional toll, so it should be paid higher in recognition of this and have better health and safety standards to ensure safety of workers.

This doesn't mean I 'respect' it. It just means I dislike exploiting humans or animals.

Tbh people who hurt animals for no reason as you describe are often sociopaths... Quite different to someone who works in a slaughter house to live.

You are a ‘preachy veggie’ OP, but I agree.

@grasstreeleaf

And vegans/vegetarians should be prepared to eat only what is produced locally including supplements. It is, after all, being presented as a more ecological choice.

Wonder how many people would have to move if the above were the case?

I agree 100%

If veggies had to eat seasonal produce from the UK with no air miles involved, how would they cope?

They harp on about animals, but what about the transport of their avocados and chick peas from half way across the world?

This is possibly causing more harm than eating meat, because land needs to be farmed intensively, hedges are destroyed to create bigger fields for machinery, the land is flooded with nitrates and pesticides, etc etc etc.

To eat meat, you have to be willing to accept that your food choice causes the death of another being.

Actually being willing to kill an animal yourself? That's a silly argument. I like eating carrots but I wouldn't be 'happy' to be stood in a windy rainy field stooping down to pick them all day. There are things that are messy and uncomfortable that I want to leave to someone else or a machine, thanks.

I eat meat but would never slaughter an animal myself. I don't even eat meat on the bone or with skin on as I don't like to think of it as an animal. It is easy and often cheap to just eat 'meat' and that's why I do, it's just a food. I'd be happy to be veggie because I couldn't slaughter an animal but I find that idea unfair for a lot of others.

@grasstreeleaf

And vegans/vegetarians should be prepared to eat only what is produced locally including supplements. It is, after all, being presented as a more ecological choice.

Wonder how many people would have to move if the above were the case?

But meat eaters don't only eat locally so that's not really fair. The reason some vegans think their diet is more eco is because that is largely what the scientific community have been saying for a while now. So your beef would be with them. Personally, I think it wouldn't hurt most people to eat a little more veg and a little less protein for their health more than anything else. Notice I'm saying reduce rather than cut. I'm allowed to say that because I am a fat vegan!😂

On the other hand, in my personal opinion, vegetarians are hypocrites. Animals are still killed along the way so that you can have your egg and dairy products

What, all of them? Even ones that don't eat meat for health reasons, or religious reasons, or environmental reasons or because they just don't like it?

Vegans aren't the only people who eat avocados by the way.

@ChamberofSecrets69

It's eaten - hence the preparation! It is a sport too, but we eat what we hunt. I've been helping my family pluck birds from the hunt since I was a child and my Oma taught me! We don't kill what we won't eat, that's the way we do it.

This thread is amazing. So much judgement based on what meat eaters and vegetarians and vegans should or should not do!

Here's a thought. Why don't we let people make their own decisions based on their own ideals and stop telling others how they should and should not think?

Previously I worked in a butchers which had an abattoir. I do not accept that to eat meat you would have to be willing to kill your own meat. I would be, but there are lots of jobs people cannot/will not do which they rely on. Meat is tasty, and subject to good animal welfare I am really happy to continue to eat meat. It is part of a balanced nutritious diet.

@FluffyBooBoo

This thread is amazing. So much judgement based on what meat eaters and vegetarians and vegans should or should not do!

Here's a thought. Why don't we let people make their own decisions based on their own ideals and stop telling others how they should and should not think?

Fluffy that is the most sense I have read on MN in a long long long time. MN has become the place for thee most judgemental high horsiest armchair experts ever.

I drive a car. Should I have to know how to build and repair it?

I use electricity. Should I be able to build and maintain a power station?

I have multiple battery-powered devices. Should I have mined the lithium myself?

@HangingOver

I suppose so but by that logic vegetarians that use conventional supermarkets should also be happy to macerate male laying hens and bolt gun male dairy calves....

As a vegan I agree with this. The dairy industry is absolutely horrific and it’s something as an ‘ethical’ vegetarian I tried to kid myself about.

@BelleOfTheProvince but eating locally is much more suited to those who eat meat and fish. If we had to eat more locally in order to get a complete enough diet it would mean many would have to eat meat or fish. What is more meat eaters aren't generally the ones boasting of being ecological. Even though it can be achieved much more sustainably, in terms of the eco cost of distribution.

Personally, I think it wouldn't hurt most people to eat a little more veg and a little less protein for their health more than anything else. Notice I'm saying reduce rather than cut. I'm allowed to say that because I am a fat vegan!😂

I'm a slim, meat eater who exercises a lot. It requires an adequate amount of protein. I eat a lot of veg too.

Oh dear. Off you pop then @hashbrownsandwich to pick your own avocados, beans and pulses etc etc etc. I mean really.

You do you and I'll enjoy my juicy steak and yummy lamb together with the vegetables etc a great, balanced, omnivore diet.