To think that meat eaters...

[hashbrownsandwich]

Should be comfortable to slaughter animals if they are happy to eat them?

The 'cheap chicken' threads have got me onto this and I'm at home with covid so be gentle!

My own personal background is that I am vegetarian and have been since I was 7. Own decision. I cook meat for my children and my husband because I believe, like i was given, it's a choice that can be made for themselves.

My husband is from farming background and has proactively raised and slaughtered animals. His conscience is entirely clear because he very much has the farmer mindset of raise the animal, give them a good life, dispatch and consume.

It's coming up to 'Turkey time' on the family farm and with the so called shortages forecast this year, I've found myself having more conversations with colleagues about the food chain/supply etc.

We live in an affluent area and we have lots of farm shops, butchers etc. However, I'm shocked that most people I know have said while they couldn't give up meat, they also wouldn't be happy to raise animals for slaughter themselves or to witness their slaughter.

So AIBU to to believe, if you're going to eat meat, it's your moral duty to be ok with animal slaughter?

Just to say, what I've tried in a long winded way above is that i'm not a preachy veggie and I'm not vegan.

@BelleOfTheProvince I agree with you here. The whole industry needs a bigger shake up than those attempted in the past. We still have too many slaughterhouses breaking the rules and it not coming to light. Farming methods in the UK are pretty good on the whole and a lot of my friends farm and the livestock are happy and healthy but there will always be room for improvement, even for the good ones.

I knew a farmer who was an absolutely vile piece of shit who gave no thought to his livestock's quality of life. If he took 30 cattle to slaughter, at least 4 or 5 would be sent away because they had eye abscesses, broken legs or god knows what else wrong. On the one hand it was good that abattoirs had health standards but the fact he was just sent home, no investigations or follow ups meant that it was just him losing out financially when the beast died at home or he was forced to treat it enough to get it to a killable state. And when he'd leave his ewes in a cattle building for days without food the RSPCA were as much use as a chocolate teapot.

I eat meat. I just want higher welfare standards too. I've raised my own and felt no guilt about taking them to be slaughtered and butchered. It's why we raised them, but they did live a happy life too.

Actually I don't consume eggs. I'm not vegan but I chose not to eat eggs. All our eggs are from our own chickens.

So you don't eat the eggs from the chickens that you have?

Will you be sending your kids out to work in the rice paddys OP? Are you aware of the cruelty done to small children and animals in many food industries like coffee, chocolate, rice, all vegan friendly.

Its an idealistic view of the world, there are far larger problems we take no accountability for.

I'd probably be happy to rear and slaughter an animal for food. I wouldn't be happy to send my child down a cobalt mine, but I use a mobile phone.

Some people just don't have that skill set and it's just one of those emotionally-loaded arguments used to make meat eaters feel guilty.

Nobody can make you feel guilty.

If you feel guilty then that is on you. Perhaps you should have a think about why.

I'm a bad shoy so tbh it would prob be kinder for meat to be slaughtered humanely. That said I absolutely would hunt for meat if i was starving as would most people i rekon.
I'm an ex vegan btw.

@Couchbettato

Hugh fearnley-whittingstall did a series on showing people how to raise and slaughter their animals, and then how to cook with that food.

He also talked about not wasting any meat and appreciating that an animal gave it's life for that food.

That's a strong ethic I abide by, and I do think that we should understand what that animal went through if we are going to eat it's meat.

I don't think it would turn people vegetarian. I think it would teach people a new appreciation.

There's a lot of evidence that eating the whole animal(obviously in addition to a variety of vegetables and fruits) is a lot better for life longevity than the current 'prime cuts' people like.

In the first half of the Victorian era poorer people who made it past the high infant mortality danger lived lives similar in length to our own. Probably down to the 'no waste' elements of their diet, no processed food etc.

There's obviously not a meat free comparison as, in countries where this happened historically they tended to be a particular incomparable group. Like monks for example.

Shot*

YANBU! Meat is packaged so nicely you wouldn't know it was an animal if you were an alien. Same with dairy products

@Miliao

I don’t think I could work as a sewage plant operator, does that mean I shouldn’t poo in my own loo?

of course, how can you take a shit in a toilet if you won't work in a sewage plant?

If I had to kill an animal to survive, then of course I would do it.

This kind of thinking reminds me of an exercise when I was in year 6 on a school trip. We had to kill and cook a chicken. I took on the role of holding the chicken as its head was chopped off. Of course I was worried about hurting the chicken and didn’t hold it properly. In hindsight I think it was cruel for the chicken as it wasn’t the neatest execution.

I’m not sure what point the school was trying to make and it seems like a pretty ridiculous exercise- we all knew where chicken comes from and killing one didn’t change that!

@FourTeaFallOut

Actually I don't consume eggs. I'm not vegan but I chose not to eat eggs. All our eggs are from our own chickens.

So you don't eat the eggs from the chickens that you have?

Not personally no, the family do because again they like them and that's their choice.

I think you would have a point if you included people who buy and cook meat in your argument.

Surely once you’ve paid for it and served it up you might as well be eating it for all the good it does?

@NellWilsonsWhiteHair

I think there's a difference here actually between willingness to carry out (or witness) the slaughter vs animal welfare standards during the creature's life. I think life is more important than the brief moment of death, and i think there must be so much cognitive dissonance involved in buying cheap meat (and eggs/dairy) and things which contain them as ingredients.

I think there's something in our advanced economy, where as consumers (decision makers) we're removed from the processes of production and we can ignore SO MUCH of the shit we're funding as a result. Poor animal welfare, air-freighting fruit, production processes with an extraordinary carbon footprint etc.

Do I want to go back to an agrarian society - no.

Do I think I'm perfect on this myself - definitely not.

It's scary stuff when you sit and contemplate it though. So much of the damage we're directly responsible for is out of sight and out of mind.

I think these are some very good points. To be honest, this topic is the same as any other issue. Some people will have a fuller grasp into how they work and other people, either because they don't want to acknowledge or aren't able or capable to process all the relevant information will not understand how the world works. Sometimes we also choose to not think about issues because, as individuals we cannot solve everything in this world, and who is to say what is the correct way anyway. We also run the risk of mental fatigue, our lives have become so complex. There was a scene on the good place which talked about how the world was so difficult, that making ethical choices was almost impossible, unless you maybe lived as a hermit. I don't have the answer basically

To add, I'm totally not judging those who do eat meat, I live in a house of meat eaters. My sons often like to remind me 'who' we are eating. I guess I'm a cop out because I know my husband can and does do the slaughter.

There have been some very good points made on here and I'll be thinking a lot of them over.

That is quite preachy IMO.

I would prefer not to slaughter myself, no. But I am well aware that's what happens.

YABU

I keep hens for eggs and have considered raising chickens for meat. However, I would only do this if I could be taught how to kill them with the minimum suffering to the bird. I'm not prepared to just 'have a go' after reading a book or watching a video. I would need an experienced person to show me and be able to swiftly assist while I learnt. I think this would be my main concern with slaughtering any creature.

I'd be ok with slaughtering an animal for consumption. I've butchered a deer before and am not squeamish about the realities of raising livestock for food.

@HuhWhatNow yes, I do think it would be better all round if there was more transparency.
It would mean people actually providing a lot higher welfare than the bare minimum would get business, rather than those just hiding behind confusing welfare labels and technicalities.

It would mean consumers would be making an informed choice, either to eat higher welfare, not eat meat or decide welfare is not important to them.

Ps again though I would want training in how to do it as humanely as possible/minimise suffering to the animal.

I’m not sure that a bunch of amateur slaughterers hitting pigs over the head with hammers, or chasing chickens round the garden with their heads hanging off due to incompetence, is going to advance animal
welfare standards.

Ahhh FFS!! What a load of crap!

If I had to, I would, it wouldn't stop me eating meat. I'm not attached to a farmyard animal and would look at it as a food source only.

I'd have no issue with dispatching an animal for consumption, my main concern is I would make a hash of it, and cause the creature undue stress whilst wrangling it into position, ready to be stunned and killed.
But my views are informed by growing up on a farm, raising livestock for slaughter and subsequently working in the food industry where I saw the meat processing industry from farm, to abatoir and ultimately to fork.

Yes, fine by me.

I know it's awful and very hypocritical but I couldn't do it! I wouldn't be able to eat it if i had seen what happens to it. Im one of those people who like my meat to be all pre packed so it doesn't actually look like an animal if that makes sense. Ive tried being vegan before and lasted 5 days, its so restrictive and the alternatives are nothing like meat.