To think that meat eaters...

[hashbrownsandwich]

Should be comfortable to slaughter animals if they are happy to eat them?

The 'cheap chicken' threads have got me onto this and I'm at home with covid so be gentle!

My own personal background is that I am vegetarian and have been since I was 7. Own decision. I cook meat for my children and my husband because I believe, like i was given, it's a choice that can be made for themselves.

My husband is from farming background and has proactively raised and slaughtered animals. His conscience is entirely clear because he very much has the farmer mindset of raise the animal, give them a good life, dispatch and consume.

It's coming up to 'Turkey time' on the family farm and with the so called shortages forecast this year, I've found myself having more conversations with colleagues about the food chain/supply etc.

We live in an affluent area and we have lots of farm shops, butchers etc. However, I'm shocked that most people I know have said while they couldn't give up meat, they also wouldn't be happy to raise animals for slaughter themselves or to witness their slaughter.

So AIBU to to believe, if you're going to eat meat, it's your moral duty to be ok with animal slaughter?

Just to say, what I've tried in a long winded way above is that i'm not a preachy veggie and I'm not vegan.

Yes, I would, if necessary but we aren't actually allowed to , are we?

I used to be a veggie in my teens but found it unmanageable when at uni as I had to eat in halls and very little choice.

I now eat meat, but only red meat once a fortnight or so.

I only buy organic chicken and one chicken lasts us for 3 meals- hot, cold, stock for risotto, so we get 6 meals for £8.

I do believe that being a veggie is a bit of a 21C privilege as there is a lot of choice to allow anyone t choose that lifestyle.

Stone age man ate what he could get his hands on and biologically we are omnivores.

You could also argue that intensive farming of crops- grains and fruit/ veg- including air freight, is very harmful for the planet.

If veggies and vegans had to live on what was produced in the UK, they would struggle. The pulses etc that you rely on are airfreighted and the land is possibly full of nitrates to boost yields.

No need to be snarky… I’m simply posting my personal views and experience. You’d be surprised by how many people hadn’t actually considered the reality of eating animals and how disconnected many people are.

@Wazzzzzzzup

I'd eat people if I was stuck and starving in the Arctic. I think most of us would. The urge to find food when starving would crowd out everything else.

I already checked neighbours for who might look like not too chewy, lean meat in case of serious food shortages😂

What you'd actually need in that situation would be high calorie food. Say, somebody with a good covering and some muscle, but not enough that they were too fast to get away from you. Preferably fed on higher quality foodstuffs to ensure a full nutritional profile in the final product.

slips away quietly in the hope that I don't live too close by

Honestly, I am not sure the slaughtering part is the most traumatic. So DH will happily shoot rabbits, pigeons, pheasants etc for the pot but it is me who has the job of getting them "oven ready". I grew up watching my grandmother and DM do this but the first time I had too was a bit aagh!
That being said we do use all parts of the animal, including roadkill, which I am sure a lot of people find repulsive but when it comes to carbon footprint it doesn't get much lower.

So AIBU to to believe, if you're going to eat meat, it's your moral duty to be ok with animal slaughter?

Well I wouldn't like to slaughter animals myself because that's weird, but yeah I'm ok with this. I'm not going to sit pretending how awful I think it is whilst munching down a bacon sarnie. I eat meat and consume dairy and I've squared it with myself that I am complicit in a cruel industry.

Just to say, what I've tried in a long winded way above is that i'm not a preachy veggie and I'm not vegan.

You're a bit of a hypocrite then OP as the dairy industry is every bit as cruel as the meat industry. Cows are forced the get pregnant than have their babies taken away at birth. They have separation anxiety and are forced to milk, experience mastitis, and their lives are spent in that repeated process. It's barbaric

If I wouldn't work in a sewerage plant then should I not used the toilet?
If I don't want to work on an oil rig then should I never heat my house?
If I don't want to work on the bins then should I never throw anything away?

Exactly this.

It just isn't how societies work. Humans take on different roles. Not literally every human needs to be willing or able to do literally every thing. People do different roles. And the quote above is a perfect summary of why this "meat eaters should be willing to kill animals" thing is just nonsense.

I'm happy with animals being reared and killed so I can eat meat and dairy, and I try to make sure that I spend my money to support the type of production I am happy with. I've seen abbatoir footage, and have watched lots of butchery.

I'm always surprised by vegans who have pets tbh.

I'm a bit ashamed to say that even though I eat meat I don't think I could bring myself to do the killing. When I see meat in a butcher or supermarket I don't think of it as an animal, just food and I'd go vegetarian if I had to kill animals myself which is hypocritical. Just being honest.

If I had to shoot an animal to survive then I would. But I don't. I'm not sure what 'making' me do it would achieve to be honest. I'd do it if I had to but I'm glad I don't.

I'm a vegetarian but I don't think meat eaters need to be ok with preparing meat themselves. They just need to be ok with the fact that other people do it on their behalf.

@hashbrownsandwich I kind of agree.

If everyone was made to kill their own animal before they could get the meat, 99% of people would be vegetarians!!!

I was raised around farming and a few times my family had small holdings with a little livestock. We raised our lambs ourselves and took them to the slaughterhouse ourselves. I have never personally dispatched an animal but I don't believe I am a hypocrite because of that. I am morally okay with having my own meat slaughtered for me. The real hypocrites to me are those who balk at the idea of having any knowledge of the processes but still want the meat. Those telling their children that meat comes from a supermarket and not from the body of a dead animal.

I raised my kids to be fully aware of where meat comes from and to buy better meat, buying free range and supporting home raised meat rather than imported stuff where farming and slaughtering standards are questionable (and yes, I know that the UK still has some awful farmers and abattoirs who break the rules, but they are breaking actual rules. When discovered they are subject to prosecution)

I'm all for vegetarianism (I get it. Eating the flesh of a dead animal. Ew) but ethics and berating meat eaters shouldn't come into it if you still eat dairy. Dairy is linked so strongly to the meat industry that you would not have dairy without it.
And even wearing wool? Wool shearing is perfectly harmless to the sheep (and is actually a requirement for health) but without us eating lamb, there'd be nothing to shear.

I don't need to kill my own food, I just shouldn't be ignorant of it.

Not going to rtwt (sorry) as it will be full of the usual vegan bashing.

However, I do think it is a shame that although even though most meat eaters want a better quality of life for animals, instead of delivering this they are sold labels which misrepresent what they are actually buying/supporting.

If you look at the actual requirements animals raised for meat have to meet to make even 'high welfare' labels such as RSPCA, the standards are a lot lower than what the actual consumer thinks is even standard practice.

Obviously there are a lot of things that would need to change to push up animal welfare as a whole, but if I was a meat eater I think I would be annoyed at being deceived as a consumer.

I also think that those who work in animal slaughter are hugely underpaid, have very poor health and safety and are often very vulnerable. Very few people do that job out of anything but necessity. Of course, making it a safer and more fair work environment would push up meat prices and I would hope people are willing to pay that.

It's an industry that does very well by hiding away the unpleasant bits, whereas warehouse workers in Amazon are less taboo.

I don't know, should vegetarians be comfortable with the problems of industrial plant agriculture and lab grown food? Yes, in a way.

Most people today don't have much opportunity to be really connected to their food production, of any type. For that matter a lot of people now have very little real experience with death up close at all. Having a pet put down is about as far as it goes, all handled very cleanly.

In the not so distant past though, many did deal with death of people and animals, more people were directly involved in farming, many people who were not farmers still had some productive or working animals, and most people found that when their livelihood depends upon it, they can in fact slaughter an animal.

I would say the reason so many now find the idea difficult has nothing to do with their convictions, or hypocrisy, it's caused by the fact that modern urban living is so isolated from nature and the roots of its own sustenance.

You write in your own op that you feed your children meat. How is it morally different in your mind from eating meat yourself? You choose to have children and this directly causes animal slaughter, because you then choose to feed them meat...So are you yourself ok with slaughtering animals to give your children meat? If not, what are you asking?

Wouldn't bother me. I would and I have killed animals - always injured ones who had been run over, but still. There's nothing wrong with taking responsibility for one's food choices, we should all do it.

I could and would have have done it. We have brought in day old female chicks and raised them on. We also grow our our fruit and veg.

I’d love to keep some pigs tbh but it’s paperwork.

The preachy vegetarians are active in AIBU today

I’m a vegan and I just hope that one day we stop treating animals the way we do. I think a lot of people don’t realise what animal farming involves. For example I’m involved with various animal rights groups and it’s very clear when talking to the public that what free range and organic actually mean are very different to public perception. Most people are genuinely shocked when they see footage or hear about farming practices.

I try not to preach as I don’t think it’s helpful. I think most people are uncomfortable with animals being killed and exploited, it’s unpleasant and most people would rather it didn’t have to happen but they’re often just not ready for big changes yet. But we are seeing people cut down their meat consumption, use plant alternatives to milk and being more aware of the issues, which is a good thing.

The things I’ve seen break my heart though. I struggle with people who say they don’t care, they just want meat regardless but to be fair there’s not many of those around. Most people care, it’s just getting them to care more.

I absolutely hate eating meat and am much, much better suited to a life of vegetarianism but for the 9 short months that I'm pregnant I'm eating meat 1-2 times per week for nutrition reasons.

[quote MyPatronusIsACat]@hashbrownsandwich I kind of agree.

If everyone was made to kill their own animal before they could get the meat, 99% of people would be vegetarians!!![/quote]
That's clearly not true from a historical perspective though.

In fact you could argue it's the other way around. In societies where there are historically groups of vegetarians, they are typically well off and high in the class system, and certainly are not farmers. The farmers they depend on raise and eat meat.

I hate threads like this because they reek of privilege. Someone slaughtered that bit of meat you're eating (or cooking for someone else) and that someone doesn't actually deserve to be the target of internet snootiness and othering. They're people too, not machines, doing a horrible job for not a lot of money so our supermarkets can have food on the shelves.

I guess no-one was clapping for the abattoir workers though, eh? Just the nice, clean keyworkers.

I love salad but would be less keen/probably wouldn't eat it if I had to pick it myself

But in extremis the cats would be eaten before I starved or started snacking on the neighbours!

I definitely prefer cats to my neighbours

[quote MyPatronusIsACat]@hashbrownsandwich I kind of agree.

If everyone was made to kill their own animal before they could get the meat, 99% of people would be vegetarians!!![/quote]
I don't think the population of Tudor England, say, was 99% veggie.