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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Cheated out of inheritance.

247 replies

Watzzap · 03/10/2021 12:52

Sorry this might be quite long. My late dh, who passed away 10 months ago, had 1 sibling. Both he and sibling had POA for fil. I know fil did not have a Will. Fil was in a Care Home as could not manage at home. Prior to him going into Care my dh and I were first contacts for fil on Community Alarm System and visited him every day. Saying this to show we did help out and have had a lot of input with Fil. We also regularly visited fil in his Care Home.

Fil passed away 6 months ago. As my dh had also died, sil organised funeral and sorted out finances. I did not expect to receive anything from my fil’s estate, but I expected my dcs to receive their DF’s share. However, apparently fil had very little to leave, therefore my dc’s share was only £1k each! When I asked sil what had happened to the rest of fil’s money she said that was all that was left after funeral costs etc.! For background, Sil has solely dealt with fil’s finances for quite a few years, however both she and my dh were named on his main account as had joint POA, until my dh died. I also know sil has withdrawn and hid money in the past, so fil got his Care Home place paid for (needed to be less than £23250). She also took his car and gave it to her son. I also know that fil had numerous Life Insurances etc. My dh was very laid back and just let her get on with things and never said anything about how his ds dealt with fil’s finances.

Fil’s funeral costs would be around £3/4K. It now looks like she has kept all the money to herself from the account she (and my dh, prior to his death) was named on and paid all expenses from his other account, which was solely in his name. Even taking this into consideration, with his other insurances, there should have been a lot more than the £6k she says is all that was left!

Is there anything I can do? As I said, I do not want anything, but feel that my 3 dcs have been cheated out of their inheritance.

OP posts:
GemmaRuby · 03/10/2021 13:21

@COOKFORD

I’m astounded at how casually you mention it. Funny how this kind of (often middle class) fraud is socially acceptable but everyone hates a working class benefits cheat

only nowhere did the op mention her class or the class of the family. Her fil could have lived in a council house he bought on the cheap for all you know or he may have been renting or living with sil....

This was a general commentary, which I believe to be true in the main. Obviously I have no idea of OP’s family’s class background.
sst1234 · 03/10/2021 13:22

@lynntheyresexpeople

Are you sure the money wasn't swallowed in care home costs? The home I worked in previously was over £1k per week.
No, because this family has been cheating the system and hiding money so we could all pay for the care. And now are cheating each other, by the looks of it.
oakleaffy · 03/10/2021 13:22

Why should he have had free care home costs while others have to pay and subsidise those who are funded by
Council?!

DameAlyson · 03/10/2021 13:22

www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-will/y/scotland/no/yes

"If a son or daughter has already died, their children (the grandchildren of the deceased) inherit in their place."

OP's children inherit in place of their father. Assuming there is anything to inherit.

Blackkoala · 03/10/2021 13:23

All the people saying OP should consult a lawyer are ignoring the fact that she stood by and watched the perpetration of a fraud, from which she now wants her kids to benefit. A lawyer isn’t going to assist her with this…

Notaroadrunner · 03/10/2021 13:24

@Watzzap I suggest you get this moved to Legal as you should get more informed correct information and advice there.

Cocomarine · 03/10/2021 13:25

@SudokuWillNotSaveYou actually most respondents aren’t answering for English or Scottish law! They’re just talking arse.

Fair enough it’s a chat board not a specialist legal board, but even so I just don’t understand why posters state something they don’t know as fact - instead of a, “I would have thought? Surely? I think?” type question response. Then the ones still arguing despite the links. Just bizarre!

You’re right that the law differs a lot between the two countries, but on this point they are the same: if intestate, and you reach the point of split between children (I.E. no surviving spouse) then in both countries the rules are that they estate is split equally between all children, and if any of those children pre-deceased the intestate parent, their share is equally split among surviving children as the next step.

BashfulClam · 03/10/2021 13:30

@Bluntness100 in the OP it state there was no will.

DottyHarmer · 03/10/2021 13:31

Yes, can't believe that people spout absolutely incorrect advice.

If someone dies and has two children, both inherit. If one of the children has already died, then their portion is split between their children. In-laws (ie the daughter-in-law of deceased) are by-passed.

As others have observed, the trouble with poking this tiger is that the "mislaying" of the fil's assets may come to light, and that's not going to end well.

kerosene20 · 03/10/2021 13:32

I’m a very experienced probate practitioner. Almost everyone on this thread is mistaken. Please speak to a solicitor or see my replies for accurate advice x

ParkheadParadise · 03/10/2021 13:32

@Blackkoala

All the people saying OP should consult a lawyer are ignoring the fact that she stood by and watched the perpetration of a fraud, from which she now wants her kids to benefit. A lawyer isn’t going to assist her with this…
Aye, a lawyer might bring a case against the whole family for fraud.
CyclingIsNotOuting · 03/10/2021 13:32

Did she act in the capacity of executor? If so you can submit a claim against the estate. There’s information on how to do this below.
For me it would depend on how much money you think she has hidden and the relationship with her. It would have to be financially worth it and you should be prepared for the fact that she may cut contact with you if you do.

www.gov.scot/publications/death-scotland-practical-advice-times-bereavement-revised-11th-edition-2016-9781786522726/pages/19/

Certain beneficiaries have rights to claim from a dead person's estate. These are called "prior rights" and "legal rights". After prior rights and legal rights have been satisfied, the executor must distribute the rest of the estate in accordance with the law.

And

Each child has an equal claim. If a child would have been able to claim, but dies before his or her parent, the child's descendants (such as the grandchildren) can claim by the principle known as representation. Representation is further explained at section 22.

daisychain01 · 03/10/2021 13:33

OP

Pragmatically, not legally, do bear in mind that if the sister decides to blow the remaining money (if it's £6-7K, it's amazingly easy to blow!), she will just fold her arms and say "see you in court".

You'd then have the job of engaging a solicitor, pay for that out of your own purse, only to be told for that amount of money it would be impossible to retrieve if the sister digs her heels in, refuses to budge and pleads poverty.

The "cheating" of your children out of money is a misnomer - the cheating that has taken place is by both siblings having been party to deprivation of assets when your DH and FIL were alive.

RedToothBrush · 03/10/2021 13:33

Simple government webpage
www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-will

Based on the situation here:
www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-will/y/england-and-wales/no/yes

The estate is shared equally between the children or their descendants.

If a son or daughter has already died, their children (the grandchildren of the deceased) inherit in their place.

So yes the grandkids have 1/3 share each of their father's half of the estate. Or 1/6 each of the whole estate.

MadamMedea · 03/10/2021 13:33

The rules of intestacy provide for the division of the intestate’s assets between surviving descendants. However, I would sound a significant note of caution on two fronts.

One is that you have no idea what your DFIL’s assets were. Unless you want a nuclear fallout you need to be confident that they should have inherited more than they did.

The second is that if it is the case that you knew SIL was adding fraudulently in hiding your DFIL’s assets to ensure his care home costs were paid by the state, you will not be able to make a legal challenge to the distribution of the estate because no lawyer is going to touch a case where their client is seeking to benefit financially from a fraud they did nothing to prevent or challenge. You would quite simply be advised to let sleeping dogs lie rather than implicate yourself in illegality.

Therefore even if you do have a claim, you have very little scope for a legal challenge.

A legal challenge would also be extremely expensive. If you’re really talking about the difference between the £1,000 they did inherit and the £6,000 you think they ought to have had, it’s not worth it. You could easily spend that amount and significantly more on irrecoverable costs, even if you were successful.

COOKFORD · 03/10/2021 13:34

This was a general commentary, which I believe to be true in the main. Obviously I have no idea of OP’s family’s class background

what does class even mean anymore anyway? It's become all so confusing and ambiguous, didn't it used to mean you were working-class if you didn't own your own house and lived in a council estate?

Then Thatcher sold them all off so many people now who are homeowners are mere that because they bought it on the cheap or their parents bought it and they inherited it. Does that mean those who bought the houses cheap and profited with the rise in prices are now middle class?

Or because so many aren't able to afford to buy a house anymore who come from 'middle class families' are they now suddenly the new working class?

TheSilveryPussycat · 03/10/2021 13:35

[quote Notaroadrunner]@Watzzap I suggest you get this moved to Legal as you should get more informed correct information and advice there.[/quote]
Please do this. You need a definitive answer.

Also see a lawyer.

Cocomarine · 03/10/2021 13:37

Just a separate point to the fraud and the Sunday “lawyers” on here…

@Watzzap you mention “numerous life insurances”. I don’t think you’ve given FIL’s age, but with grandchildren - one old enough to drive, if he got the car, it sounds like in his 70s? Are you sure that he wasn’t outside the cover period of the life insurances? If this is the source of the supposed wealth, then quite possibly you’re wrong about the extent of his assets.

ejhhhhh · 03/10/2021 13:38

I'm not sure you want to be opening the can of worms that bringing any kind of legal action would lead to. What your SIL did was depravation of assets, and the council will likely take this very seriously, they could bring legal action against your DH's family to recover the care home costs that your FIL should have paid, and the POA has been abused. Given your OH had joint POA, he was also liable. I don't actually know if the council could pursue your DH's estate for funds, quite possibly not, but I'm not sure this is something you want to get getting into.

RandomWordGenerator · 03/10/2021 13:39

Can I just derail this threat to say - everyone in Scotland without children - quick, make a will and make sure your DP does too. Otherwise a big chunk of your estate goes to your parents/siblings/ in-laws, rather than all to your spouse! (Based on my reading of that flowchart).

I’d also like to say sorry for the loss of your DH Flowers

Pinot4me · 03/10/2021 13:40

I’ve found the office of the public guardian to be really informative and helpful in the past. Give them a call and ask for their advice. Good luck 🤞

Casiloco · 03/10/2021 13:43

Some very confused info here.

  1. If intestate, the survivors of a direct descendent who has died, should get a portion of the estate.
  2. If SIL was hiding money for financial assessment for care costs purposes, this is Deliberate Deprivation of Assets, which is not looked kindly on by the Local Authorities.
  3. The problem is that if you were to unlock this particular Pandora's Box, all that would happen would be that the Local Authority would reclaim the care fees they covered from SIL.
  4. however, that could still mean that the Life Policies and the amount in cash up to the £23,000 odd would be available to be distributed in line with intestacy rules.
  5. Personally, I would take legal advice.
SudokuWillNotSaveYou · 03/10/2021 13:47

@Cocomarine Where in the absolute fuck am I thinking of then? Ireland? America? Er, obviously you can’t see my brain, ha. Really sorry, OP. I know Scotland and England differ in disinheritance of the first generation, but I obviously mixed up inheritance through surviving offspring of the first generation.

One thing that might help you, OP, is to determine if your SIL applied for confirmation. This is maybe the only thing I DO know about dying in Scotland. If she was the executor of FIL’s estate, you have to apply for confirmation if the estate is worth more than £5000, so you will at least automatically know that FIL died with £5000+ and can go from there. But if he had a car… the estate seems like it would automatically be worth £5000+, unless it was a banger (you said she gave a car to her son). So yes, you’re going to need a lawyer. What a stress when you’ve lost your DH and FIL so quickly. I’m so sorry for your loss Flowers

Oh and some Gin for dealing with your SIL being a cunt. I almost never use that word, but someone stealing inheritance from children who have lost their father deserves it.

viques · 03/10/2021 13:47

@Bluntness100

You don’t actually say what the will said, just what you feel your kids are entitled to?
There was no Will.
WorraLiberty · 03/10/2021 13:49

I also know sil has withdrawn and hid money in the past, so fil got his Care Home place paid for (needed to be less than £23250). She also took his car and gave it to her son. I also know that fil had numerous Life Insurances etc. My dh was very laid back and just let her get on with things and never said anything about how his ds dealt with fil’s finances.

You knew that and you're only interested in getting involved now because you feel your kids are missing out on money?