People more concerned about doing their washing quickly than the environment.

[Starryskiesinthesky]

AIBU to think it is totally depressing that people arent willing to make even small changes to try and stop the environmental crisis that is here. For example, not wanting to use an eco programme on machines because it takes longer, not prepared to dry clothes outside rather than use a dryer, driving everywhere rather than walking. If people who could, made small changes, it would all add up and we might be able to halt some of the damage we are doing to the environment and childrens futures.

YANBU, but what inevitably happens is people will get defensive and justify their actions because it "doesn't make a difference" and "change comes from the top" when what they really mean is "I'm can't be arsed to spend 2 minutes putting some paper into a different bin to some glass".

I do not care. Come back to me when China, India, America and all the rest start making "small changes". In the meantime I will be cracking on with my dryer and car.

Direct your anger at corporations, not normal people. This is what they want...for us to blame each other

I do the vast majority of my washing on a 30degree quick wash. Is this any better or worse than a 4 hour eco cycle?

Well, the good news is that electricity is about to become so expensive that people will be forced to cut back on these energy extravagances.

Individual actions might make no or negligible difference but it is part of a shift in mindset that will drive change forward. It doesn’t mean we can all do everything, and what’s done is done - I already have 3 kids, I can’t (and usually don’t want to) send them back - but it doesn’t mean there is no point in buying an energy efficient washing machine and using an eco cycle now and then, which gradually puts pressure on washing machine manufacturers to make sure there are better eco options on their machines.

@Wnikat

Well, the good news is that electricity is about to become so expensive that people will be forced to cut back on these energy extravagances.

Including electric cars

a lot of what's available today is only feasible for higher income families with more disposable spending and space

Well exactly. We have a relatively expensive washing machine (an AEG) and there is an eco button and a temperature button and a quick wash that can modify all the different wash cycles. So I can have a 5h eco wash or a 2 h eco wash depending on my choices (temp makes the biggest difference). And I WFH so can hang my clothes out at any time in the day. And live in a windy part of the country so clothes dry outside (in my garden) for most of the year. And have a utility room that is well insulated so clothes dry in there within 24h so I can air dry all year round. But some people don't have all those option.

The car charging I actually checked how many homes have dedicated car parking spaces and it's 60% (and I'd assume some of those who don't have driveways also won't have cars) which I was surprised at but it does mean that most car owners will be able to charge in their own space. My employer has just introduced free car charging in the carparks at work but again, not every employer will be able to do that.

I think we all (as rich westerners) should try and do what we can and be aware of the consequences of our choices, whether that is choosing to fly less or delaying parenthood / having fewer kids or not having pets or buying less and buying second hand / vintage / antiques or thinking about how recyclable what we buy is. But also being aware that these are very first world issues where we actually have a choice. If we can afford to insulate our house and have groundsource heating or solar panels or a windmill then we should do that but not everyone can afford to do that. And the really big changes need to be made globally and by big business. But we can all write to MPs and companies asking them to change.

I was thinking that those with electric cars won’t be grinning, at those looking for petrol, for too much longer.

I know that there’s some free charging at the moment, but it won’t last forever.
I remember when we bought our son’s first car, there was no road tax on it, but that soon changed.

I’m appalled that people think it’s not bad behaviour that warran

YANBU, but what inevitably happens is people will get defensive and justify their actions because it "doesn't make a difference" and "change comes from the top" when what they really mean is "I'm can't be arsed to spend 2 minutes putting some paper into a different bin to some glass"

Sure, but I don't think most people mind recycling these days. Behaviour change is hard, and there is usually no incentive to do it when you see that the bigger changes which need to be made aren't being done. Everyone has lines in the sand though, you probably also have some.

If a hundred people are kicking you, then obviously you want all hundred to stop kicking you. But even one stopping to put the boot in is helpful

That is such a bizarre metaphor. If 100 people were really giving you a kicking you wouldn’t notice one but if one more or one less joined in. Even just one person kicking me would be 90% as bad.

@HarebrightCedarmoon

YANBU, but what inevitably happens is people will get defensive and justify their actions because it "doesn't make a difference" and "change comes from the top" when what they really mean is "I'm can't be arsed to spend 2 minutes putting some paper into a different bin to some glass"

Sure, but I don't think most people mind recycling these days. Behaviour change is hard, and there is usually no incentive to do it when you see that the bigger changes which need to be made aren't being done. Everyone has lines in the sand though, you probably also have some.

Recycling is really the bare minimum anyone should do. The people who insist that they recycle are still out there buying piles of shiny brand new manufactured goods.

What good is recycling doing, your not changing your lifestyle at all- just using a different coloured bin

…. Sorry, don’t know how that happened

Appalled that people don’t think this bad behaviour warrants being taken seriously. 15 year olds being taught that it’s okay to behave badly means bad behaviour is normalised. I’m listening on the radio to the women complaining how poor male behaviour towards women is normalised and this is the same.
15 year olds shouldn’t behave this way. He should be punished for assault and he should learn to behave better. Whether he caused this infection or not, he behaved maliciously, on purpose and knowing the potential risk.

I’m sorry op your family is experiencing such worry, hope everyone is okay.

Omg and now I’m on wrong thread! Sorry all, my iPad keeps flashing and doing things I don’t expect!

@EnterFunnyNameHere

It's also not that clear how eco "eco" mode is. I'm 99% sure that the eco mode on my machine is the "eco" version of the full on 2 hr cotton at 60°c wash. I don't think it's more "eco" than the 20°c low spin 1hr wash I usually program by myself!

the whole eco thing on washing machines is based around the contrasting principle of how to get washing clean.

1. agitate the water a lot until it is clean
2. soak it in a stationary drum until it is clean.

eco cycles soak rather than agitate. Agitation requires more energy. Soaking take a long time, hence the long eco cycle.

So comparing two cycles, same temp (whether 40 or 60) the eco one will use less energy, but take 3 x as long.

We do many things in our house to reduce energy, the main one when it comes to washing is that we don't use a tumble dryer. But I am not convinced that the amount of energy used between the eco and normal cycle is worth it. Especially as we have solar panels which produce the energy for the washing machine anyway.

[quote Silverswirl]@HereticFanjo weird, I have a family of 5 and no tumble dryer at all. Seem to manage just fine![/quote]
Then I suspect you live in a warmer house and / or a less rainy part of the world than me @Silverswirl 😁

@HarebrightCedarmoon

The one thing that strikes me in the last week, OP, is how far an awful lot of people drive in their cars every day. From 75 mile round trip commutes to someone here travelling 45 miles a day for cancer treatment. The whole of society is set up around cars.

Whereas I use my car infrequently, and feel absolutely no guilt about using my tumble drier when I can't put washing on the line. It might cause slightly higher energy use, but it isn't contributing to air pollution.

It's not a cancer patient's fault that they have to drive so far to get their essential treatment.

@TartanJumper

I do the vast majority of my washing on a 30degree quick wash. Is this any better or worse than a 4 hour eco cycle?

worse than a 30 degree eco cycle. See my post above.

Do I assume that my entire washing machine is an Eco one? As it's brand new ? (And takes 3hrs 55mins to do a wash)

I don't think I understand what is eco about using 4 hrs of electricity?

for all those saying - look at China.

Everyone in the west still uses more energy per head of population than India or China.

I don't think it's so much that people refuse to make changes. It's more that we often don't know what difference any changes could make. I didn't really know how the eco wash worked until reading that other thread. To me, eco wash equalled the not washing properly wash. I thought it was just that the temperature was lower, not that the drum agitated less and so needed less electricity.

Other changes aren't possible for people to make. Lots of people just have one set of bedlinen so they need to wash on a quicker wash setting and use a tumble dryer. I've got more than one set so can line or air dry but have myself contributed to climate change because of the bleaching needed to make cotton white, buying more bedlinen than I actually need etc.

I heard a good interview with Brenda Boardman, an expert in domestic energy use, the other week. She said that private households are only responsible for 25% of UK energy use - fitting in with what others have posted above. However, she phrased it positively in the sense that we might all (might not must) be able to make changes.

The key thing is for manufacturers to use technology to make changes to appliances to make them need less energy. For instance, the motors in vacuum cleaners now use less energy and I can't say I've noticed a difference in performance.

Other things aren't in our control. I didn't choose to build out of town retail centres, large district hospitals, and housing estates which mean that people don't have any choice but to have a car. There was another thread this week about schools and the petrol crisis and a decision by one secondary school to insist children and teachers living fewer than 6 miles away should walk unless they had a physical disability. 12 miles for an unknown number of days in a row. I was quite relieved not to work there!

As a childless woman, I thought the comments about having children a bit . We do need to replace ourselves to survive! I'm grateful for other people's children who provide health care, educate the next generation, deliver groceries, and all the other things we need to keep society going.

For me, changes are more about helping us make educated choices (wear clothes more often but use a hot wash or wash more often but on an eco setting). I accept that almost all of us do what we can. What's feasible for one person doesn't work for another.

Sorry but “direct your anger at xxx not at me” is just a cop-out.

Of course there are going to be things which people can’t change. But equally there are going to be things that people simply don’t want to change, and those are generally the things which people become defensive over.

Packaging is the Bain of my life, I hate it, and I think that companies need to be more accountable for the amount of it they use. By the same token though I don’t need to buy a plastic bag whenever I go to the supermarket.

Public transport needs to improve on a national level, and in some instances public transport isn’t adequate enough to not need a car. But in certain parts of the country e.g. in the big cities and esp in London nobody needs a cr, and absolutely nobody needs two cars. If you have two cars in London it’s because you want two cars.

The roads around my local station are crammed full of cars that have been driven there a couple of streets and then parked there all day while the drivers get on the train to work. Assuming you don’t have a major disability, you should be able to walk 20/25 minutes to the station, and if not you should be able to catch a bus.

The buses here are second to none and there are trains into London every 15 minutes or so. Anyone who has a car round here has one because they want one.

Obviously the same cannot be said for smaller towns where public transport is inadequate, but that doesn’t mean that people who live in larger towns should just say “well, they need cars so I should have one just because I want one.

@Gatehouse77

Until there is systematic change at a much higher level there's very little impact of the measure you state.

This 100%